War??

artic · Post by **artic** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 05:57 am

Twice already in the past few days a party of varios people from the valley have launched an attack at the shadowdancers guild. This places us in a pretty wierd position- for where lie the rules here.??
I mean its a guild war, they are insulting our guild. Are we not allowed to retalliate? And even if we were allowed some sort of retalliation, its very important in what for this retalliation comes. See its unthinkable that an assasin would go on an all out assault. More likely an assasin would stab the offender in the back, when they least expect it- maybe even in their sleep. Or poison them to weaken and confuse them and then slice their rotting corpse.

So how do we solve this conflict between the rules and the consept of the icesus world?

It seems unfair that only one guild can be attacked like this, as it is the only one in PK allowed zone. It also seems strane that the attackers can retreat to a "safe" area just outside of graemor. I mean if they run'n'hide then they should _run and hide_ : Run until they are no longer chaced or hide within the walls of their guild.

apex · Post by **apex** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 06:02 am

Much agreed... Though I'd have to disagree with the "only guild attackable" point. at least for sdancers, any of the other guilds are attackable (even if their main sponser/mob isn't as practical as ceawin is). Sdancers could MUCH more easily sneak into another's guild and take out a mob unnoticed then in this circumstance.. (once again though.. practicality?)

just some thoughts.
-Apex

artic · Post by **artic** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 07:02 am

What i hate about the current state of things is that the NO-PK-outside-graemor rule is hindering me RP-ing. How can i be a assasin without assasinating anyone?

apex · Post by **apex** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 07:10 am

(Cough) Clan system (cough)

misrobo · Post by **misrobo** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 07:11 am

You are not alone. Sorcerers is new, but several times we have had our gatekeeper killed by huge greedy parties. That costs us mightily when we have to train for the next 4 days or so.

"finger richter" will reveal that the rangers have been hit in the past. I'm told no one could join rangers until their guild master returned.

apex · Post by **apex** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 08:06 am

hmm weloq is a big one

felgand · Post by **felgand** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 09:27 am

As far as I know, the only guild that cannot be raiding are the air priests. In fact, several guilds have been raided in the past and their guild members such as Weloq (mentioned earlier), Grurg, and Ariaxum killed. This is not a new phenomena. In fact, this is not even the first time a city has been attacked as earth priests were running rampant in Vaerlon less than a year ago killing guards. As far as the rules go, they are covered within help city defending with the provision that it is Graemor...therefore preemptive strikes are entirely possible. [/i]

artic · Post by **artic** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 13:11 pm

felgand wrote: As far as the rules go, they are covered within help city defending with the provision that it is Graemor...therefore preemptive strikes are entirely possible.

The meaning of this sentence escapes me, please do explain!!

And so what if, such guild attacking has taken place in the past- that does not lessen my devotion to my guild not one bit. I still grave for blood to be repayed. I did not join the assasins to be in the regular army, i joined to be an assasin. I got skills that only work on players, i have been designed to PK, designed to lure in the darkness for the unseispecting player. And im not talking about hunting down poor innosent newbies, im talking about stalking player twice the size (read level) of me that have deeply offended me and my guild. I want to stab em in the back, cut of their head, and hang it at the manshion gates, for everyone to see- so future adventurers would think twice before attacking. Why should i guard graemor like a templar in guard duty, im an assasin, its unthinkable... I backstab, kick below the waste and slit throats while they sleep.

See in the point of RP it makes sense that i should be allowed to PK the attackers of my guild outside graemor. If they wantd to be safe from an assasin, they have to hide in a very safe place, not just smirking at us from the outside of the city gates. And i think such conflict between cities, guilds and oehter groups of players (read clans) would bring a lot to Icesus both for players that like to RP and those that dont. And in not saying a punch of sorcerers should pop up at ereldon ant stark killing unsuspecting newbie- im saying, if they start a war with some important NPC's like the city guards, than anyone that feels the need to should be free to join in the fight. And the rule that says conflict is over once the attacker retreat more than 2 steps away from the city, might be fine for most guilds that are oriented at face-to-face fighting, but its not OK for guilds that are designed differently.
So im saying some new rules will have to be made, or the old ones have to be changed.

solar · Post by **solar** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 15:37 pm

Heh... _IF_ you would roleplay and go slay them outside of Graemor's safe walls, perhaps others would roleplay too and ATTACK Graemor with even more parties... or superior force. (Those pesky wannabe-assassins are getting on our nerves, so let's hang them for justice(tm) ).

When Earth_priests besieged Vaerlon, the defenders were allowed to follow them upto 3 rooms from the city walls.

As for the city defending... I think Graemor is big enough a place for pkilling as it is. No need to allow hooligans vandalizing others outside its walls. You are allowed to stab people who are in Graemor even if they are not attacking your guild.

moraq · Post by **moraq** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 15:50 pm

It still sounds stupid to me when people attack our guild (shadowdancers) and flee to regen one block outside graemor in safety.

I also agree that PKing should be very limited _but_ maybe there should be another help file called help guild defending which would say that if someone raids your guild you _are_ allowed to retaliate and get them even if they builded their camp a bit outside city gates.

-=Moraq=-

artic · Post by **artic** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 16:17 pm

solar wrote: You are allowed to stab people who are in Graemor even if they are not attacking your guild.

I know the current rules, and i respect them - you have not seen me break them yet! But im saying these rules are hindering me roleplaying. See id graemor had an army like the varlon militia and other guild, surely we could fight the intruders with similar big parties, in an all out war just like varlon repelled the earth priests. But assasins are not designed to do that. They are designed to sneak, hide, backstab and kick below the waste, not for honorable fights of all-so-goody-goody-templar-knights. They are designed to track the enemy down, using their shadow sense, sneak in when the nemy is sleeping and stab them with a poisonous dagger in the back.

All im asking for is make rules so that guilds could use their designed purpose for wars like these.

and solar, your threat that more and bigger parties would come to war with graemor is rather empty- there are not a lot of level 90 players, thus if more parties come, they will surely have to bring some lower level players too. And i welcome lower level players! I welcome them indeed!

I do not fer war, i welcome it! We have had martial law in vaerlon for 60 years, with no actual activity. And i think its just about time, this changed. Im just asking that the rules would be made to acsept the means of different guilds and that some form of balance be restored to the world- some level of fairness. See if someone attacks graemor, they are allowed to attack both NPC's and players. But it graemorians attack Vaerlon, they are only allowed to attack NPC's- and then only the players that defend the npc's. And most NPC's in vaerlon give loads of bad rep- making most of the city agro, whereas the npcs in our guild dont give bad rep anywhere, not even in the guild. If i sneak into the mages guild and attack the librarian (the only mob that is about the same level as our captain of guards) the whole mages guild will aggro on me, maybe even the kingdam of valkor.

So give me rules that will respect my nature, and give me some hint of balance...

moraq · Post by **moraq** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 16:23 pm

Indeed, if some party raids Graemor, I stand no chance in open fight, I _have_ to hide and wait for them to sleep or something, but when you can just step in rift and regen there outside pk area.....Then I just mostly die, which is stupid as with my stab i could even kill a player thrice my levels.

That's not balance.

apex · Post by **apex** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 20:08 pm

I sort of agree with everyone a little.. Shadowdancers seem SO limited.... (And often ignored). We're NOT another army.. and its a great guild! just many of the skills we possess are useless really.. because noone goes to graemor... and if our guild is attacked, i do think it's absurd that we can't follow attackers beyond city walls (or even 3 rooms beyond). Once again.. not templars, not defenders, a purely offensive guild. But I can also see how this can cause big problems as far as balance goes, and how it can be abused. So I'm stumped myself as for a solution.. but still yearning for something:)

brich · Post by **brich** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 20:11 pm

It would only be reasonable that IF stabbers were allowed to kill anywhere and anyone then they could be attacked on sight. There should be no warning or any other reason then ... an assasin might kill you if you don't kill him first. It doesn't sound too inviting now does it?
I guard the gates. An "assasin" arrives. I check him. He has _very_ low reputation besides beeing a shadowdancer. I have all the reasons to block him. There are mighty high chances he will hide and stab me. In the light of these facts wouldn't it be reasonable for me to attack on sight? He would stand little to none chances to survive.
Allowing more pk WILL backfire in a most painfull way. Just my view on this. I don't care about "guild wars" or "clan&cabals" and so on. Aren't things nice as they are? Some people need more thrill that can be provided only by killing other players?
I admit the red carpet event was nice and arena is mighty fun but this is enough. By mear city defending or guarding one can "earn" enemyes for a life time...

artic · Post by **artic** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 21:02 pm

Forget it! I see my error now, and shall shut up! I have understood that the people here can not RP even if they wanted to- the greed of one will drag them all down. Neither can PK never be really fair.

War??

War??

we could cut a deal