War??

[felgand]

I agree with Brich, if you open the can of worms and allow assassins to kill anywhere on Icesus...they should expect the same treatment and could be killable anywhere. This is not a good system for Icesus. You're introducing unfettered and rampant pk where there once was none.

However, there is value to pk in a roleplay sense. So I offer you an alternative system for the shadowdancer guild alone. If the shadowdancer guild is attacked, each invader is served with a mark. This mark allows a single shadowdancer to take a contract out upon that invader whereupon they have 1 chance (and only one) to kill their victim. If the dancer dies while the contract is taken out, it is null and void...the invader is no longer marked. However, if the shadowdancer succeeds in his kill, he gains some guild devotion and perhaps a minor amount of money (less than 100k silver)...plus Ceawin announces on game-info that the contract has been served. While the contract is in effect, the invader is notified that he is marked and of whom has taken out the contract (since he can't go around killing every shadowdancer to be sure).

[apex]

I think the BEST idea for "use" of the shadowdancer's assassin intentions would be, as Maruxus wrote a bit before he left- to take contracts from other players. To solve the little disputes (kill stealing, etc. etc. etc.). Find some way to legally implement this (find a way to prove wrong has been done etc.) and make it legal to assist (and to find a way to regulate this so people couldn't just go killing everyone they wanted). This way, shadowdancers serve a purpose somewhat in the game.

(before completely dissing the idea- and i know its rough- try thinking of ways to improvee it... i think the general idea is good.. but i know the ways i've described it aren't as good.. yeah.)


Also, If Graemor could be uptuned? given more incentive for players to use graemor.. and therefore give a means for assassination w/ sdancers.. right now players haveno real need of graemor, and it's not very accessible anyway. Give people a reason to visit and there would be more for sdancers to do.

[felgand]

As your idea stands, Apex...I can't see it working without turning into mass chaos as friends of shadowdancers take out numerous contracts on each other just so their buddies could go on a pk spree. You'd have to provide strict guildlines on what can actually be turned into a contract, not just tiny disputes like kill stealing. You have to remember, Icesus has done well even without open pk, indeed allowing open pk will only ruin what has taken many years to create. And I'm saying this as a person who first learned to play on MUDs where roleplay and playerkilling are the daily bread

[apex]

I completely agree with you felgand. I don't want uncontrolled, open pk. I think the general idea of serving contracts would be good. But it would, as you said, have to be controlled somehow.. and i have no clue about how:)

And maybe expanding graemor would be a better alternative?

[iluth]

Allowing more pk WILL backfire in a most painfull way. Just my view on this. I don't care about "guild wars" or "clan&cabals" and so on. Aren't things nice as they are? Some people need more thrill that can be provided only by killing other players?

Things are ok as they are now, pk is a diversion to the pac-man style exp gathering which seems to dominate this mud.

[felgand]

Expanding Graemor has the same effect as allowing open pk (such as in a poorly made contract system). Not a good solution

[artic]

Its rather pointless to expand graemor, or make it so that there would be a grater need for player to visit it. What ever you can think of, someone will abuse it- just because they can.

You put a new dezzo in graemor (some easy to kill mob, with a valuable item) and there is always going to be a shadowdancer in that room hidden, just waiting for you. You put some new guilds in graemor and whenever a player reincs (especially when he has pronounced it on wanted channel) he will find he just cant reach hes new guild- theres just too many players (hidden) on the street that leads to that guild. heh, thatone even works now- to get into the guild youll have to ask the leader, leader notifies hes friends and theyll have some fun killing you, whenever you try to exit the temple of death...

So place a fountain of gold in graemor, it wount help make the game more fun. better leave it as it is, so the shaodwdancers can have their inter-guild finghting there. its even sayd in the guild desc that there are a lot of fights in the guild...

[apex]

I didn't mean expanding the city itself as much i did just adding new, useful areas AROUND the city... not necessarily ambush spots within the city... give people a reason to WANT to go to graemor.. cuz there is none now (so whats point of having pking in graemor except just for sdancers). People wouldn't HAVE to go to these places... and more over, if it ewre expanded (more guilds added there etc.) then it would be a sorta scenario where you could "choose" open pk or not (living in graemor or vaerlon.. once again, just an idea- prolly not even a good one, but i'm just thinking a lot right now about giving sdancers a real function (rather than just a odd army of sorts- with nothing really but exping function- as sdancers are useless in parties.)


And, I agree with artic and moraq in that I'd like to see more RP opportunity in the game... not necessarily running around emoting things etc. as much as giving scenario and cause for our hunting and killing and such...

hmm

-apex

[iluth]

I wonder if templars feel the same frustrations when they guard the gate, knowing that there most likely will not be any assault by npcs on the town or such, but that they will just stand there til the reputation meter fills up, i know i felt the same thing when i was contantly wiping out entire species of animals as a ranger, and i know a former mage who felt that the guild was completely bare RP wise also.

All it would take (for us shadowdancers to do some RPing )would be to add some exp areas around Graemor and perhaps some lockers, and the same features to Atherton. Icesus is HUGE, but it doesn't make good use of the space, many guilds and exp areas are centered around Vaerlon which makes the mud effectively much smaller than it could be.

Each town should have a unique feature to make somebody choose to live there, so far Vaerlon has ALL of the features, and is also the starting point for every single newbie, if the starting point was somewhat randomized, and each town had newbie areas and things like this, maybe player distribution would be evened out a bit (do wizzes even want this?)

[brich]

Excuse my ignorance but Graemor has quite nifty exp areas nearby not to mention the town iself I explored a bit and found "unique" mobs/features there. If I train chrono skills a bit more I could mark that place on my exp/cash map. Atherton too has pleeenty of exp areas. I would say Vaerlon is a bit more "gifted" due to the fact that it is the starting city.
Hmm,newbie area near Graemor? I don't say there isn't but the purpose of such an area near a place that requires 3mil exp to start with...eludes me. Without me sharing information you could say that outworld is a newbie area itself (with all those cute centipedes). I strongly feel that "evening" the areas would require a huge effort because the phenomenon itself is casued not by areas but by ...(ok I'm gonna say it ) lazyness.
"pacman"-style is quite an effort and makes people if not bored at least to get a strong rutine. However, tunes and increased number of highbies (if I'm wrong calling people with over 100mil exp higbies then let's say "exphungryslayingmachines") led to players seeking and laying siege to areas many times ignored in the near past. Even the "guild-war" i would say is such an effect.

[iluth]

Excuse my ignorance but Graemor has quite nifty exp areas nearby not to mention the town iself I explored a bit and found "unique" mobs/features there.

You're missing my point a bit, shadowdancers (and soon hopefully earth priests) have Graemor as their hometown, but they just rift or kill themself and get resses to vaerlon to go and make exp, does this make sense to you?

Though i should go and try find these nifty exp ares, i saw one which was reachable by foot, but not much else and there are definitely no mobs to kill, or money to make inside the actual town itself.

[apex]

I totally agree with Iluth. All i was really asking is that enough be added to the graemor added to make it (if one wanted) independent of vaerlon. (more quests, perhaps a quest-o-meter like ereldons at virzuduz, etc., more money areas, more diverse exp areas and such).

[felgand]

You're quite mistaken if you think there's only one area to exp in near or in Graemor. But if that still doesn't suit your tastes, you're quite free to come up with suitable area ideas and build one for Graemor yourself.

[apex]

I don't doubt there is *more than* one area to exp near graemor but i don't think there are as diverse areas as around vaerlon.. also, access to elemental shrines, blessings, etc. also draws graemorians back to vaerlon... all i'm saying is i think it would be nice if graemorians could live in graemor just as well as they could in vaerlon. (also another city closer to graemor in the future would be nice.. but i'm not going to go there). I don't mean to whine excessively, just once again, as an sdancer i feel silly in graemor- noone ever visits.

[iluth]

Felgand i applaud you on your attempt to be rude while sounding polite.

Anyway you're only looking at things from the perspective from a high level partying templar, those areas around graemor arent suitable for soloing as you well know, and selling loot in graemor is impossible since you can't get a cart inside the town, some of us still actually sell loot.

Walk a mile in a mans shoes and all that.