War??

felgand · Post by **felgand** » Sun Jun 27, 2004 11:20 am

Artic:

There are areas surrounding Graemor which contain creatures perfect for a shadowdancer, even if you choose not to believe it.

felgand · Post by **felgand** » Sun Jun 27, 2004 11:59 am

Apex:

I have not mentioned or even alluded templars in any of my replies on this thread. I've spoken about shadowdancers and how they fit into the Graemor scheme exclusively. It's interesting that its only folks who play shadowdancers who steer the conversation towards a templar vs. shadowdancer argument. Perhaps you should reexamine your own points?

ayumi · Post by **ayumi** » Sun Jun 27, 2004 21:52 pm

Shadowdancers and templars are rivals in game though aren't they?

Continuing from the courier idea topic..

felgand wrote:Ayumi:

It's not a matter of whether the current crop of shadowdancers will suddenly become pk-ravenous cretins and start preying on everybody that walks by...but to open up a system that allows for the plausibility of someone in the future to take advantage of a loophole and go on a mass pkilling spree is not wise. Shadowdancers have their weaknesses, true, but in the same sense their ability to hide at all gives them an exceptional advantage. Especially when only half or less of the available classes in the game even have a means to bring one out of hiding. And of those that do, they have no sure-fire means to do so unless they believe the dancer is already in the room without other nasty creatures in it. While they may not always get off a backstab, they probably have one of the best means to evade capture.

It's also interesting to note that shadowdancers in the not-so-distant-past were considered one of the best guilds for gaining exp while solo'ing. It's quite interesting that folks now are arguing the complete opposite.

I see no reason shadowdancers would begin going on a mass pk spree, the pk rules would remain the same. Nobody would be allowed to walk into vaerlon and kill players. Though players that join in to defend an NPC have joined at their own risk, making the pk completely legal. And if more reason is given to go to graemor then people enter there at their own risk also. It's unlikely brand new players would probably even hear about graemor so no worries about them either?

Yes and about the not-so-distant-past.. earthpriests were around graemor too. When i visited then I saw more people around than I do now. There would be city wars also, but as was stated there is still much you can only do in vaerlon (lockers being #1 that comes to mind), therefore killing vaerlon npc's would be harmful for graemor citizens. Would it be for a templar going around killing graemorians and getting negative graemor rep? no. Because they can forget graemor exists. But that is not so for vaerlon. Besides, wouldn't you templars like some invasion attempts now and then anyway? Must be boring guarding the gates from 5 shadowdancers that wont attack npc's anyway because they rely on the city too much.

I don't even think it should necessarily be easier to travel between vaerlon and graemor either. What I believe would be ideal is that people living in graemor can stay in the graemor area for very long periods of time, and forget vaerlon completely even. The only time the two cities should really come together is during these wars.

And i dont think it's much about the exp either. I imagine shadowdancers have great potential, and hey that backstab, i sure wouldn't want to be on the receiving end.

But one stab is one stab. If you mess that up too bad. It takes more time to kill an aggressive monster also. I'd just feel limited there, I couldnt go around attacking everything equally. And I couldn't see a shadowdancer winning an arena match against a templar :/

It just would be nice if graemor had some more features, unique ones. Unique because if they were similar, there'd be nothing new in graemor to be worth travelling to see. Atherton has its exotic mount shop for example, maybe something similar to that would be good in graemor, which would stock unique graemor only mounts (evil things like manticores? perhaps manticores would be silly, but you get the idea anyway i hope

)

I remain hopeful that new guilds and areas will be added to the graemor kingdom, and that would benefit us all in various ways, whatever city we decide to live in. This is also why I am for this even though I live in vaerlon, i would like to go to graemor and spend alot of time there, visit and explore, do new things, but it's just...boring. Not worth the walk that's for sure.

And hey, I might even give it a shot and try to code some stuff myself, but lets face it I'm a terrible writer and my coding is really basic room/item stuff from another basic lp mud, so that option is most likely out

janeti · Post by **janeti** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 01:49 am

As a member of any other guild, if I spot player(s) killing my guild NPC(s) am I allowed to interfere, killing the player(s) who is(are) making the attempt?

apex · Post by **apex** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 06:03 am

Felgand,
I'm not intending any sort of "Templar vs. Shadowdancer" argument. I was trying to make a point to you in particular, in reply to something you said to me.

And there may be a few exp areas around graemor.. i've only fundamentally explored the area.. but what i'm more concerned about, is as ayumi, and artic, and iluth, and myself have written about before.. being able to LIVE in my hometown. I hardly exp anymore anyway... "pac-manism" doesn't suit me, so i often have to take breaks.

Anyway, I don't mean to offend anyone on this forum, and I'm sorry if you feel i'm being overly direct or if I seem to be writing angrily or arrogantly, I seem to be ticking a few people off- and i don't intend any such sentiments.

mandrake · Post by **mandrake** » Tue Jun 29, 2004 21:51 pm

I don't get many chances to get on here an read through the post an even few chances to play right now but I have been trying to follow a few of the threads this being one of them. And I think I have a few ideas that could help work out the problems brought up in those threads, these being the threads about shadowdancers, PKing, graemor not haveing enough to interest players and the idea of haveing a thief guild. One we could put the thief guild in graemor so to make another reason for players to go there(train as a theif, buy things on a Thief's Market,etc.) an while some people say haveing thiefs would be bad cause they would be stealing from other players it would really help if done right. My idea for the thief's guild is to make it a sub-guild that any player could join an give them skills that would be usefull for any player even those that chose not to steal from players or even monsters. A few of the skills I have in mind are a skill that helps the play spot traps before the set them of, a skill that has to be built up before it works really well of course, an the most important thief skill...Lockpicking. I mean in the end this is a RPG even if not every one "RP"s, the guilds an races are based on the basic RPG ideas an well thiefs are a mainstay of the game as anyone that has ever played a D&D game knows. This way we could make it where being a thief or partying with a thief isn't just usefull for those that what to rob people but are usefull to those that well want to be goody-goody. Now my idea for the shadowdancers an the PKing thing actually covers both, a new skill for the army guilds, templars and other defender type guilds as well as a new guild, Bounty Hunters. the idea is A.) when a player steals from another player they automaticlly leave a "calling card" in place of the item that details what item was stolen who stole it an who they stole it from, the "vic" can then take that card to either a branch of the Bounty Hunter guild or one of the other defender guilds an turn it in to have a warrant posted for the thiet an the defenders an Hunters can then collect the bounty on the warrant by finding the person on it an use they shiney new "arrest" skill to force them into a party like group where they have to follow them back to the bounty office where they are turned in an jailed for a set amount of time unless they make bail, the person that brings them in gets a set about of money an exp depending on the crime an the number of warrants out for that criminal plus any extra money or times the vic chose to add at the time of posting the warrent. B.) now for the murders it would work more or less the same except for the idea that those warrants could have the line "Dead or Alive" and they could even be put to death once brought in an gone through a trial. Basiclly the idea is to let us players police ourselves, some one steals from you turn them in, an yes make it so vics can collect on thier on warrants cause there is no need to worry that friends will willingly steal from each other to collect the bountys on each other cause criminals that are cought lose money to get out an exp so there would be no reason to try it cause you would really get nothing. I have many more detailed ideas but I don't want to make to much huger of a post here but if anyone wants to talk to me about it my e-mail is a_mandrake@hotmail.com[/b]

apex · Post by **apex** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 00:37 am

Mandrake, it's a good argument, and it sounds enticing... but you'd end up with a Sriel stealing things from everyone in sight- and noone being able to do anything about it... I think a thieves guild might upset the balance of the game, and turn a lot of (especially newbies) away..

epiv · Post by **epiv** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 11:11 am

Some ideas:-

1) Instead of more large PK areas why not have just PK rooms scattered around the map and in cities (in dangerous areas)?

2) A player who has recently PKed can have
[Blood] tag attached to his name for a while.

3)Players of low level can decide whether or not they want to PK or be Pked.

felgand · Post by **felgand** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 22:47 pm

In general, more random pk isn't needed or wanted. Having random pk areas across Icesus would just confuse the issue and would probably lead to a slew of unnecessary issues being filed and unhappy people. Instead, pk with a theme or one that's tied to an (several) events would be much more beneficial and interesting for all. The challenge is coming up with those interesting themes and ensuring they are balanced and free of loopholes.

felgand · Post by **felgand** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 22:54 pm

In general, more random pk isn't needed or wanted. Having random pk areas across Icesus would just confuse the issue and would probably lead to a slew of unnecessary issues being filed and unhappy people. Instead, pk with a theme or one that's tied to an (several) events would be much more beneficial and interesting for all. The challenge is coming up with those interesting themes and ensuring they are balanced and free of loopholes.

apex · Post by **apex** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 00:37 am

I agree with you TREMENDOUSLY felgand. and even more, if ANYONE could think of a way to make contract killing possible and plausible (to have actual sane reasons for it and such) that would be even better. But aye, for EVERYONE events would fill the gap greatly.. perhaps thats what we need. I liked the courier idea.

However, just because random-pk is possible doesn't mean iit wouldn't be in the mind of good roleplaying (ok.. some would, yes) but perhaps having "alleys" that make travel through cities more convienient, but are prone to pks would be cool too- but once again, how to balance/work this out?). In general, i think that as Felgand said, event killing, etc. would be for the best

molden · Post by **molden** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 11:10 am

Tip for Mandrake, you could divide your posts to sections, much easier to read. But you had good points but the problem is, that lvl 100 players could do whatever they wish and people couldn't do much about it.

grainer · Post by **grainer** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 15:45 pm

What I think is the most important aspect in allowing any Pk is that you should be able to control whether it's legal to Pk you or not. I really don't want to get killed with no chances to issue the Pk'er with weeks worth of exp on when I'm doing a level. (as a weak mage it's no difficult task to stab me to death with 1 stab etc.)

On the other hand, when having less exp on, yet still enough for the excitement, I think I'd like the "living on the edge"-feeling.

harlonus · Post by **harlonus** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 16:45 pm

make a "kill'em all"- event(not using name Bloodbath coz BatMUD already has one) that Virudruz or whatever he was teleports everyone who wants to Graemor where you can really PK players, everyone who wants to kill/get killed can go there and the other ones who dont want to can make exp or do something else.

but again, there is no point on this event because we have the Gladiator event

artic · Post by **artic** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 18:54 pm

I think it would be pretty interesting to see some sort of a dark alley in Vaerlon/Atherton. Maybe even a guard placed infront of it, who warns people that this place is not good for newbie travelers. Cause if everyone is made aware of the danger in that alley then not many would venture there, and those that do, know what they are risking with- just like now with graemor.
Like every town has it own poor-district.