PK in icesus.

[etadan]

Easiest solution to this would probably be making all streets in Graemor "roads", so noone could place traps on them. Or for dancers/epriests just start defending their town, as in alerting guildmembers that 'foo' is in graemor, time for manhunt event, and actually coming to graemor to deal with intruder despite exprate loss. Closing all city exits would also be neat, if it wasn't for chronomancers. One could also try to convince wizards to remove legalized pk completely.

[apex]

oooor shadowdancers could quit complaining. To me, it's part of being a shadowdancer... the whole back road assassin thing.. it's got to be dangerous somehow, no? I was a sdancer for a good portion of my icesus career, and am contemplating a reinc now, so please humor me when i say "Suck it up and stop whining".

[khade]

i still say there should be a hidden backdoor to the shadowdancer guild, that if you can find it, you can get in, without a fight, even if you are not a shadowdancer. also there should be an entrance that only those from level 1 to 20 can go through, that can not have any traps set near it.

[apex]

i still say there should be a hidden backdoor to the shadowdancer guild, that if you can find it, you can get in, without a fight, even if you are not a shadowdancer. also there should be an entrance that only those from level 1 to 20 can go through, that can not have any traps set near it.

there is a reason you can't join sdancers til you have 1m totals. I think sdancers should have it hard off. It's a really powerful guild, and for what they are, their life should be hard at the guild and whatnot. I think it reinforces the characters, it doesn't take away from them.


Though I also think outside players should be allowed into the Sdancer guild.

[khade]

can't they enter the guild? if they kill the guards? i am not sure of what you can and cannot do in the guild now. for all i know it could be like the air priest guild

[apex]

nah i think it was tumi that made it impossible to enter the guild, even w/o guards

[cezar]

dancers/epriests just start defending their town, as in alerting guildmembers that 'foo' is in graemor, time for manhunt event, and actually coming to graemor to deal with intruder despite exprate loss.

That would hardly achieve anything. The fundamental unfairness here is that shadowdancers and epriests come to Graemor to train, where as Etadan, err, I meant to say pkiller mage, can choose to come after he spent his exp. I'm all for completely removing legal pk, but at the very least we should remove any opportunity to engage in malicious pk while carrying zero risk yourself. 'You can pkill him back' is not much of an argument when death carries miniscule losses.

I think a pkiller flag would do wonders.
Pkill in Graemor may be a legal pkill, but that certainly shouldn't mean it is completely no-foul. Go ahead, suggest and range of repercussions for carrying the pk flag. The obvious ones would be being legaly attackable outside of Graemor. Exp loss where exp could actually go into negative, or, perhaps, a random chance of level loss.

[apex]

dancers/epriests just start defending their town, as in alerting guildmembers that 'foo' is in graemor, time for manhunt event, and actually coming to graemor to deal with intruder despite exprate loss.

That would hardly achieve anything. The fundamental unfairness here is that shadowdancers and epriests come to Graemor to train, where as Etadan, err, I meant to say pkiller mage, can choose to come after he spent his exp. I'm all for completely removing legal pk, but at the very least we should remove any opportunity to engage in malicious pk while carrying zero risk yourself. 'You can pkill him back' is not much of an argument when death carries miniscule losses.

I think a pkiller flag would do wonders.
Pkill in Graemor may be a legal pkill, but that certainly shouldn't mean it is completely no-foul. Go ahead, suggest and range of repercussions for carrying the pk flag. The obvious ones would be being legaly attackable outside of Graemor. Exp loss where exp could actually go into negative, or, perhaps, a random chance of level loss.

Once again, the fact that your guild is in graemor should give you a clue that there is some risk involved in joining it. That's your own decision, and it's part of being in that guild. It always has been. Stop trying to turn icesus into the flower mud of flower muds, lol.

[cezar]

Once again, the fact that your guild is in graemor should give you a clue that there is some risk involved in joining it. That's your own decision, and it's part of being in that guild. It always has been. Stop trying to turn icesus into the flower mud of flower muds, lol.

I fail to see how I am advocating flower mud by asking the right to defend myself. Quite the opposite in fact, I am asking that it works both ways. No flower power for anyone who chooses to enter Graemor and engage in pk.

There may be some risk involved in joining a guild in Graemor, but why do jump to conclustion that I should have no risk managment options other than to reinc out ?

[apex]

who says you can't defend yourself? you're free to kill anyone in graemor, you can even be pre-emptive.. if you're that worried about getting pk-ed use shadow sense at anyone that poses a risk that may or may not be in graemor. if you're determined enough, there are plenty of ways to get in and out graemor without getting killed- if you're cautious. I don't think the game needs to be changed just so shadowdancers can get through graemor more easily... once again i think it's part of the guild. and no i don't say reinc out- i say embrace it, learn to live with it, and keep enjoying the guild and the game.

[cezar]

who says you can't defend yourself? you're free to kill anyone in graemor, you can even be pre-emptive..

I think I already adressed that. I'm not asking for an opportunity to engage in virtual combat and, perhaps, even kill the opponent. I am asking for his death to hurt him, as much as it would hurt me. Seems only fair, especially since he is the one who entered Graemor with malicious intent.

if you're that worried about getting pk-ed use shadow sense at anyone that poses a risk that may or may not be in graemor. if you're determined enough, there are plenty of ways to get in and out graemor without getting killed- if you're cautious.

Listen to yourself. You just assured an expert assassin that there are plenty of ways to run away with your tail between your legs. Or, I could stand ground and fight with level exp on, and may be even kill the assailant with 100 exp on.

I don't think the game needs to be changed just so shadowdancers can get through graemor more easily...

It didn't need to be made harder either. The whole issue came up when Echcua affected the balance with the new traps.

once again i think it's part of the guild. and no i don't say reinc out- i say embrace it, learn to live with it, and keep enjoying the guild and the game.

Well, you actually agreed with exactly what I said. Emrace it, or have zero risk managment options other than reinc.

[solar]

I wish to point out that pkilling in icesus is pretty tame and that it could be *worse*. Graemor was coded (imho) as a solution to satisfy both the players who wanted pkilling to be implemented as well as the normal flowerplayers.

Graemor is not a healthy place, the place is 'evil' - the assassins and necromancers (e_priests) are located there. It also holds some roleplaying value (which is accepted) by being such a dangerous place to be in.

I don't think that pkilling would ever become reduced in any way, on the contrary, as we get more players, we also get more players who wish to pkill - possibly even outside Graemor. (Wizards might implement more pkill areas, like a new town or something)

[etadan]

I am asking for his death to hurt him, as much as it would hurt me. Seems only fair, especially since he is the one who entered Graemor with malicious intent.

Somekind of pk flag that only becomes active when killer has about same exp as victim had, +/- 10%? And maybe so that only victim get informed when the flag is active, killer should just wait and see? Could be neat.

And as sortof side quest. Think of an alternative use for magical traps, and post here/mudmail me.

[dunn]

I am a flowerplayer, yes thank you. I don't think that making guilds part of an area where you have to sneak around just to get in to train x amount of exp is reasonable.

These are my observations:

No one is in Graemor to pk.

Players are not balanced for direct confrontation.

If you're in Graemor to hunt and kill players that have spent hours getting their exp on to level or train, then you are a player that pk rules are made for.

PK has to be regulated or not used at all. (Lots of options here - pk flags is actually an excellent idea if implemented intelligently.)

The only reason Graemor works is because of the first reason. Otherwise it would be a mini-abuse-area that is a mirror for what has been the death of many muds that did not enforce pk rules or regulate pk.

And lastly, guilds should be safe rooms, at least for their members.

Players are not paid to mud, they will play as long as the game remains enjoyable and all their hard work, under their control. By having the only pk option be in a player town populated with guilds, where people need to dump that exp, you replace that control with a risk that becomes ultimately a necessity. And out of player control.

The only reason Graemor is not a rampant pk area is because not enough people play (think volume) and the majority live in Vaerlon. And because only very great players can kill a lesser one without going about it with intent.

[apex]

You know, not everyone enjoys having a bright and sunshiny walk in the park where they can hack and slash all the rats that will line up for them... I thought graemor was the option FOR those that get enjoyment from living dangerously.... those that like the darker side of things... And thats what shadowdancers/epriests are- the darker side of things. If you took that element/aura/atmosphere of danger away from graemor, and those guilds, epriests and shadowdancers would just be another EXPrate guild you know? But they're special, because of that extra little flavor you get by the risks you take to be in it. I honestly think that Shadowdancers should just suck it up. Yes, they have to lurk and sneak around to get to their guild safely.. but isn't that what being a shadowdancer is all about? Having an assassin guild (essentially, what the shadowdancers are) is hard enough w/o legal pk throughout...