PK in icesus.

[artic]

As long as there is PlayerKilling there is whining. If someone gets killed by a single backstab, they whine that backstab is too powerful, and should be tuned. If a shadowdancer gets melee'd to death by a templar, they might whine that dancers get too low melee. etc. Thats all quite normal.
Theres always ben a cure: like if you don't want to get backstabbed, run really fast, and if you dont want to get meleed, get a better armour and set all to defence and run when you see danger.
However this recent addition to the system just cant fit in my head. Assasination traps.

Heres an example:

Code: Select all

Not realising that there is a trap you walk straight into it!
You hear a faint hiss and before you realize it, your right hand is freezing by exploding magical energies!
That really hurt!
...and you become a living icicle!
You are frozen solid, and completely unable to move!

You can't fight it. You can't run from it. And avoiding it is almost impossible. If they want, they can kill you for fun, and theres nothing you can do about it. Armour is useless against magic, resistance eq does not work either...
Ok, lets be smart about this, if you cant fight it, or run from it, makes sense that you have to avoid it. How?
1) Don't go to train. Others can do what they want. you can only level, if they let you. Dont seem fair to me.
2) Learn 'detect traps'. Its not a garatied saviour, and at my current level it would cost me 3MIL to get it to 15%. I would have to take 4 levels outside my guild. I know of no other guild that is _forced_ to take levels outside of their guild. dont seem fair to me. seems like shadowdancers are so good, you need to cut them down 4 levels? I don't think so.
You might also suggest trying not to move into rooms that are trapped, but thats impossible. There is no way to get to the guild, no way that cant be trapped. A single straight road. prefect for laying a number of traps in a row and than wayting in a safe room for the message that you hit something.
Oh, and theres also that one: 'Too bad, Sucks to be you! If you don't like it, reincarnate!'. Well thats not the answer. How about I attack you- just attack, no kill. Every time you think its safe to sleep in the outworld, or when you come to your camp to regen- ill stab you. ill make sure that you spend 95% of you play time regenning. Theres no rule that says i can't do that. And if you whine about it ill just say: 'Too bad! Sucks to be you! If you don't like it: type 'suicide' and make a new char with a different name.!'

So anyway, i think these traps are wierd. i have nothing against mages being able to damage me with their traps. Just if you take away my chance to fight back, my chance to run and my chance to avoid- it seems rather pointless.
Or maybe im missing someting? Can you explain this to me?

[echcua]

I can see that you are all flustered up over something new and haven't had time to think about it or even looked at the ways around traps. Like everything in life there is a flaw that makes something vulnerable, all you have to do is get together into groups and have a think about it. Group activities are always great as new ideas will pop up that you may not have ever thought of. Then because of one person coming up with that great idea you all learn from it. So why don't you try getting into groups and you may learn somethng...

On a side note I would like to quote a bit of the Player Killing Act just to remind you.
"Player killing consists of all actions taken by player characters in attempt to kill, harm or otherwise inflict damage on another player without the consent of the forementioned player."
So you cannot attack players outside the exceptions of the act.

[etadan]

Well, naturally shadowdancers and earthpriests(at least they) need to get trap detection training inside their guild, preferably without requirements for that skill.
Second thing, that "You are frozen solid, and completely unable to move!" is a critical afaik, so it doesn't happen too often. If it does, it will probably get downuned now(*sulk*).
Third, mage who tries to set the traps in graemor is(no, not a complete moroon) very likely to get killed by wandering npc, such as guards. Setting a trap in Virzuduz's room is even more lethal, since chance of mob that is standing in the room to trigger the trap once it's set is high(imo) tough tolerable.
Forth, we get nethers for playerkilling even inside graemor. For solo mage that's a nightmare, since you can't use invisibility with nethers.
Fifth, inside guild saferooms ought to be changed somewhat. Like maybe making them safe only for members of the guild. And maybe making them safe only against players, so wanding monster can track you down there and kill you(you don't like that, go realy far away).
Sixth, yep, 'not rules' to be a shadowdancer. At least three events involves them gathering in a nonsafe room(the prayer is realy amazing), which just invites for some(don't look at me!) invisible mage to sneak in and cast tornado. Not because he's a you know what, but just to see if he/she can pull it off. Notice that anyone with area spells can do it, invisibility just makes it easyer.
Seventh, magical traps don't last long. If you see one, scream the bloody murder to guild channel, so they'll come and murder the mage(he's probably still in city, setting more traps). Not to mention the wandering npcs that trigger and thus disarm the traps.

Still, nethers and great chance of agroing some guards presuades mages not to use traps in graemor, so it's not a huge problem(then again shadowdancer with full level exp on will disagree). You might think that mage can happily set few traps after boot and never visit graemor again that boot, well true, tough i usualy come back for one reason or another.

Few questions btw. "help player killing" says "IIIb) Player killing is allowed in Graemor." Where graemor begins(or any other city for that matter). Does rift room in graemor count? The stables? Reason i'm wondering is that guards take fee for entering the city after those room, so who knows, maybe they're not in Graemor.

P.S. did i mention high chances of getting to ignore list? now i have

[artic]

Oh this is juat great! You can trap NPC with mage traps?!!
This is really ironic.

A while back. i was whining about shadowdancers not being able to use backstab for PK in graemor and as one of the solutions i suggested a trap that would immobilize that victim. I think that topic is still in the forum somewhere so you cas see how angry people got. Things they flared about the most , as far as i remember, was : immobilize was considered unfair, trapping NPC's was considered abuse and the whole idea of PK traps was considered stupid and i was considered an ideiot for suggesting it.
Now all of those things have come true and im the only one whining- ironic.

P.S- Place 3 mage traps on the bath of a certain orc shaman, once you get the message that one of your traps has been destroyed, power up you spell, shaman will arrive shortly. When he does, he will be in not so good shape, finish him with that spell, i told you to power up.

edit: found that topic...
http://www.icesus.org/Forums/viewtopic. ... light=trap

And although shadowdancers did not got the traps.. Artic goes teasingly 'Nee-ner nee-ner neeeeener!' at Felgand.
Quintosh is right, this is serving no purpose, ill settle down now.

[felgand]

Heh, while I'm not exactly jumping up and down for joy that magic traps have been introduced...they have at least been introduced into a guild that has more trouble soloing exp (and pk'ing) than a shadowdancer. This may put them a bit more on par with other guilds to solo exp and gather money, or may put them over the top. Only time will tell...and magical traps will be adjusted one way or the other over time if they aren't in tune, I'm sure.

[artic]

Agreed. Mages need traps. Theres no way they could start a PK fight without them and live. However i don't think mages lack in soloing ability. They say shadowdancers in the best soloing guild, well Apex was 5 levels below me and killed monsters i would not even dare to scratch with my year-long-collected-40%-masteries. But thats a hole new matter on its own and who am i to say whats what.

I still think there should be something done so that I would at least have some way to avoid these traps. Cause after i lose my level exp, i really dont care if the mage got nethers or if he got killed by someone else in the guild or by an aggro guard. I only care that i have wasted about a weeks work. I am at the total mercy of the mages: if they want, they let me train and if they want the kill me- like a kid hunting ants with a magnifieing glass.

I actually settled down about this matter, thinking: 'Its not that big of a deal. I can always check if any suspicious looking mages are online and maybe even seek them out with my shadow sense and just not go to guild when they are near it.'
But guess what, I can't even tell if a mage is online or not. So there goes that theory...

[etadan]

However i don't think mages lack in soloing ability. They say shadowdancers in the best soloing guild, well Apex was 5 levels below me and killed monsters i would not even dare to scratch with my year-long-collected-40%-masteries. But thats a hole new matter on its own and who am i to say whats what.

Yep, whole new matter, but: mages get good at soloing at about my level(35), maybe 30, while shadowdancers get good compared to others of same level as soon as they get backstab(and move silently). And Apex is a beholder which gives him advantage.

I still think there should be something done so that I would at least have some way to avoid these traps. Cause after i lose my level exp, i really dont care if the mage got nethers or if he got killed by someone else in the guild or by an aggro guard. I only care that i have wasted about a weeks work. I am at the total mercy of the mages: if they want, they let me train and if they want the kill me- like a kid hunting ants with a magnifieing glass.

I'm hoping that they'll give you detect traps soon, tough these traps are magical and how will you manage to detect them is beyond me, but icesus is icesus :)

I actually settled down about this matter, thinking: 'Its not that big of a deal. I can always check if any suspicious looking mages are online and maybe even seek them out with my shadow sense and just not go to guild when they are near it.'
But guess what, I can't even tell if a mage is online or not. So there goes that theory...

*Etadan wonder if plural is realy necessary*

[khade]

how about a "secret" backdoor to the shadowdancer guild that only shadowdancers can use?

[etadan]

If it's just additional door, it won't help since traps can be set inside the guild too(tough in some cases inside is safer, since npcs are more likely to 'disarm' traps inside).

[echcua]

I disagree that detect traps should be handed out willy nilly. I have given enough, although cryptic, hints in my last post to easily be able to neutralise traps if you play smartly. If you don't play smart well then you wont neutralise the trap will you

[artic]

I disagree that detect traps should be handed out willy nilly. I have given enough, although cryptic, hints in my last post to easily be able to neutralise traps if you play smartly. If you don't play smart well then you wont neutralise the trap will you

The guild of shadowdancers is designed to be a guild of solo playing. I did realise what you were suggesting in you last post. And i do agree it a very nifty tactic, however, it only doable if you have friends. General rule for shadow dancers is, don't let you back be unguarded. And no matter how friendly a shadowdancer, i wouldnt let him watch my back.

And furthermore, the idea you suggested is a good one for 'neutralizing' traps (and the trapper) but it is not a very good idea with level exp on.
So im still at the mercy of other players: i can only level and train when they let me. And that is far from fair.

As a sidenote: the add extra door idea is useless. A far better idea would be to fix the guards, so they would _actually_ guard. And than theres only that little problem of that long-straight-road.

[apex]

part of being a shadowdancer is the extra risk involved, Artic. There is a reason it was put in Graemor- get stabbed, get blasted, run into a trap.. whats the difference?

[felgand]

I'll have to agree with Apex here. Graemor is a pk city, and as such part of the thrill is the chance of losing things that have taken you a while to earn as well as dreaming up tactics at your disposal now to avoid possible problems. Even then, it's just exp...in other examples of pk, you would stand the chance of losing all of the belongings on your character or more. This is still tame by comparison.

[artic]

part of being a shadowdancer is the extra risk involved, Artic. There is a reason it was put in Graemor- get stabbed, get blasted, run into a trap.. whats the difference?

Dudes! Your not listening.!
Getting stabbed, blasted, bashed, slached or hacked is quite different from being trapped. And thats what im whining about.

I dont really care if mages get traps. Considering i got a critical hit from a trap and survived, its ok. I feel a bit bad for Arewin, cause shes gonna die with a single hit from them traps, but i can helt her get that lost exp back.

What i don't like is: You can avoid being stabbed, blasted, bashed, slashed and hacked. And if you cant avoid it, you can always run from it. This is not the case with traps. You cant run. You cant see where it is, and take another route. You can't even tell, if the mage who placed the trap is online. I can sense/see invisible shadowdancers, but i cant see invisible mages- they are soo invisible that they dont even seem to be online.
The only way to get to your training room with you level exp in one piece is to have someone walk just one step infront of you, tripping all the traps. So that if you enter the room, he is already an icecicle and the invisible mage is too busy killing him, to bother with you. No need to explain that no-one wants to be the bait.

What im saying is, if you Felgand desice it would be fun, to keep killing me over and over again, and not let me level at all- You couldn't do it. A mage could.

[quintosh]

And you are a bit wrong on that one, Artic, yes, you can sense invisible mages aswell, you dont see _them_ in the room, but you can still see the room quite well