New outline for artisan guild.

Share your ideas about the future of the game with other players and wizards.

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
dunn
Posts: 162
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 07:23 am
Location: Toronto, Canada

New outline for artisan guild.

Post by dunn »

Looking back over the ideas in the previous thread, I have come up with this. It's a more concrete blueprint of what I think an artisan guild on Icesus could be.

Aim: Replacing game stocks (not systems, ie eq system), augmenting current top layer (equipment getting, df, experience acquisition and use), basic player services, but not limited to, (higher materials need a city/region tier process of handling them, aka not player), expanding utilities.

Pros: Raw resource economy. Completely destructured. Player ran. And not burdened by such things as PLANS and various other game checks (Buying and selling, merchant rep).
Cons: Artisans recoded. Some thought needs to be given on implementation, and formulas to determine actual values.

Guild Structure:
Open subs, no more than 5 levels each.
Ascending levels, no more than 3 levels each. (8 total, secondary subs requiring specializing)

Pros: Easily fits current player base, allowing each player to take a "job" into the economy, that they can do during their idle time from parties/whatever.
Allows also specialized artisans who take a larger amount of levels, making them an effective harvester/producer type player.
Should be newbie friendly.
Cons: None that I can think of.

Pitfalls: Overflow of resources. (Can be easily checked by adding a decay timer for anything not stored in appropriately coded places.)



Carpenters(7): The builders of Icesus, using broad based designs in laying out their craft which is often utalitarian in nature or even a project for a place of residence, such as a farmhouse or cabin (with a building permit) from the local Lord.
Depends on: Loggers.
Materials needed: planks, timber, tools from metalworkers.
Produces: huts, cabins, farms, carts (+chariots?), barrels and kegs, fences (don't want a manticore in your garden), wood containers;

Woodworkers(5): Fine art specialists, who do not do the laborous work of carpenters but are focused on the pursuit of the finest, most meticulously hand crafted work, with the combined use of serving from tool to ornament.
Depends on: Loggers.
Materials needed: planks, tools from metalworkers.
Produces: bows, arrows, fishing rods, toys;

Loggers(5): The least artistry inspired form, these hearty men and women strive for the perfection gained merely in hacking and selecting the finest wood to turn into a form carpenters and wood workers can use.
Depends on: None.
Materials needed: tools from metalworkers.
Produces: planks, timber.


Leatherworkers(7): From simple stitchers to fur carvers, leatherworkers specialize in making basic materials into goods that can withstand the hardships of the land and as such, can provide more than just mundane clothing or accessories.
Depends on: Hunters, Shepherds.
Materials needed: leather, fur, wool.
Produces: leather/wool/fur items, resizes, marking/unmarking

Brewers(5): Focused solely on making the best drink money can buy, their products are much sought after goods in the priestly services of temples in their offerings.
Depends on: Farmers, Millers.
Materials needed: wheat, grain, tools and kegs from carpenters.
Produces: beer, wine, tea bags, cider.

Farmers(5): The bread and butter of the economy, farmers make and provide a wide variety of raw materials which are then processed by others towards various finished products. Some farmers herd various animals and sell them in markets. Others specialize as cooks or millers.
Depends on: Land.
Materials needed: Farmhouse.
Produces: ballots of grain, wheat, grapes, apples, eggs, tea leaves.

>>>>>Cooks(3): Experts at making nourishing and healthy food, acquiring their produce from either farmers, hunters, or fishers.
Depends on: Hunters, Farmers, Fishers, Millers, Shepherds, Brewers.
Materials needed: Any (raw) food sources ingredients, liquids (to enhance properties).
Produces: food (with various minor properties), rations.

>>>>>Millers(3): Farmers who are expert in the handling and processing of grains.
Depends on: Farmers.
Materials needed: wheat, grain.
Produces: flour, fine grains.

>>>>>Shepherds(3): Farmers who are also devoted to the care and handling of domestic livestock such as horses, cows and sheep.
Depends on: Farmers.
Materials needed: wheat.
Produces: wool, milk, horses, mules, riding dogs, feat training (to domestic animals).


Geologists(5): Trained surveyors of the land, skilled in testing and locating mineral deposits.
Depends on: None.
Materials needed: None.
Produces: Locations of ore veins.

Metalworkers(5): Craftsman trained in working with metal and producing various alloys. Also specialised in making various tools and general things out of metal.
Depends on: Miners.
Materials needed: any ores
Produces: alloys, smelted ore, purified ore (of hard metals), basic metal tools.

Miners(5): An often poorly paid, but dedicated bunch who specialize in extracting quantities of ore from the earth. Without a mine, some have been known to sift pans through the river, hoping for precious glints of gold or metal.
Depends on: Geologists, Loggers.
Materials needed: tools from metalworkers, timber.
Produces: any ores.

Jewellers(5): Very fine craftsmen who specialize in gem cutting, increasing both the value and quality of stones. They can also train as smiths to create various exquisite items adorned with gems, which can be sold to special nobles.
Depends on: Metalworkers.
Materials needed: gems stones.
Produces: Cut gems.

>>>>>Trinket Makers(3): Jewellers who specialize in the crafting arts.
Depends on: Miners, Metalworkers, Jewellers.
Materials needed: gold bars, silver bars, platinum bars, cut gems.
Produces: valuable items (encrusted with gems), gold/silver/platinum resizes.

Smiths(7): Basic weapons and armour makers often employed by Lords in making various armours and equipment.
Depends on: Metalworkers.
Materials needed: alloys or smelted ore.
Produces: Any metal weapons or armours, resizes/unmarking up to fine steel, arrowhead cutting of any material.



Notes and Clarifications:
Smiths can only work with certain types of materials, that metalworkers can actually smelt. Much harder materials such as titanium and up, are instead purified and either given to the city smithy towards lowering services cost for resizing such an item, or sold for a marginal profit. Otherwise, smiths are able to craft any piece of armour or weapon they wish and up to any quality they are proficient at.
Resizes of tita and up would return to the city based smiths, with costs able to be lowered by providing purified ore for a particular resize order.

Cooking can be a poor man's alchemy by following various recipes requiring various ingredients.

Brewers can provide a substitute to DF gathering, making wine to substitute as offerings, with value based on the age of the wine being offered.
Every Farmer needs a farmhouse, and depending on their specialization (if any), some additional work done by the carpenter. Millers need a mill, Shepherds need stables. They are assumed to come with a basic store house in a second tier, for at least wheat and grain.

Land works as follows. Property tax must be paid by the land owner to the local kingdom (based on the size of their holdings) and location, each having various prices based on the total net of goods flowing in and out of their own economy. But the more they pay out, the more they'll want to increase their land cost. This shouldn't be anything major, just something to consider where you will buy your land. In a major farming community or a place where many other jewellers and other artisans are basing their trade and thus increasing the living cost. Prices for these could vary on occasion and based on the availability of resources. So typically they would go through various recession phases, but not all at once, making non farming tradesmen want to move their business.

If tax is not paid, then the kingdoms reclaims your land and you lose your farmhouse. Farmhouses are are maximum 4x rooms in OW, with one room being the farmhouse itself and one plot of land. If they are fenced in, other players may not enter your terrain (but could still pass through), and aggro mobs will not spawn there. (Perhaps create a protected instance.) Otherwise terrain should not be affected.
Cabins could work similarly, for recreation purposes, if you do not want to require a carpenter to constantly repair your hut. And could also come in a more spacious second tier version.

Definately increase cooldown timers for many skills to avoid them being used as an exclusive means for anything, when other game related tasks apply. But useful towards lower end players, who cannot always accomplish these. There is also no need to give them an exp reward.

Bows and arrows are listed under woodworkers, because they could in theory produce much more durable bows and arrows with the added training and perhaps extra time.
Better fishing rods (than regular stock).
Lots of other stock could be replaced by player made ones, such as water flasks, to wineskins or waterskins, to hold various liquids. Otherwise stored in metal cans (milk) or barrels.
User avatar
yoz
Supporting Member 2009
Posts: 226
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 22:02 pm

Post by yoz »

This is how suggestions should be like, detailed and idea rich.

Big thumbs for the idea itself and for the time spent on describing it.

Few thoughts of mine: Only idea to get real player economy in this game indeed is to make the guilds open subs. A crude fact that stands is that we just lack the large enough playerbase, and players just lack the interest of making totally useless nonexping reincs just to spend money.

A great idea, and well put.
It is just sad that it goes to blind eyes, none of the wizards who are active at the moment are concerned about artisan system at all. Not to mention that the father of this catastrophe is away, and even the santas little helper misrobo is inactive.
User avatar
suron
Posts: 147
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 16:12 pm
Location: Oulu/Kalajoki, Finland

Post by suron »

Mmm, I liked it, if done properly this will be nice.

But...what do we do with all these items? Are they permanent in some way and/or just meant to sell them into a shop for some sweeeeet scratch? (sorry if I missed this part in the post, my eyes glaced over in the middle part) 8)

and does this idea include the pimp open sub?
osma
Posts: 179
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 05:09 am
Location: Mississippi

Post by osma »

Perhaps I read it incorectly, but it seems that he said that the first 5 levels of each guild would be open, with the next 2-3 being specificly restricted to artisans. This makes sence, because a guy with his still in the back room will not likely make as good a wiskey as the guy in a 10 acre brewery.

All the guilds make sense, but I personaly dont see many people going for farmer.

Having gemcutters enhance equipment sounds like a great idea. Not nessasarly giving the item an enchantment, but giving it a df bonus as if it was enchanted.

And you know with players like we got, all the sacremental wine is not going to make it to the church on sunday.
User avatar
yoz
Supporting Member 2009
Posts: 226
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 22:02 pm

Post by yoz »

osma wrote:Perhaps I read it incorectly, but it seems that he said that the first 5 levels of each guild would be open, with the next 2-3 being specificly restricted to artisans. This makes sence, because a guy with his still in the back room will not likely make as good a wiskey as the guy in a 10 acre brewery.

All the guilds make sense, but I personaly dont see many people going for farmer.

Having gemcutters enhance equipment sounds like a great idea. Not nessasarly giving the item an enchantment, but giving it a df bonus as if it was enchanted.

And you know with players like we got, all the sacremental wine is not going to make it to the church on sunday.
Yes you did read it wrong, i'd really hope that you would not spoil this idea by thrying to throw in something of yours.
However, unless you have noticed, 90% of the highbies in games are loggers. Do you think that is because they are keen of cutting trees? i doubt it. Personally i wouldnt even mind if the subguild i joined was a guild of personal bowlers, its the stat bonuses that count. For example, if bakers would have decent casterstat bonuses on their 3 levels. It would be the most popular subguild in game.

And for the love of god, this is a MUD where people shoot acid out of their ass. Please, try not to get stuck on the fact that something is not realistic... I'd rather had bunch of pink mumbojumbo flemmings doing the smithing for me than having an system that is a pain in the ass and as useless as the current system we have.
User avatar
yoz
Supporting Member 2009
Posts: 226
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 22:02 pm

Post by yoz »

suron wrote:Mmm, I liked it, if done properly this will be nice.

But...what do we do with all these items? Are they permanent in some way and/or just meant to sell them into a shop for some sweeeeet scratch? (sorry if I missed this part in the post, my eyes glaced over in the middle part) 8)

and does this idea include the pimp open sub?
I prioritized bashing Osma over this post.
Here is another idea which includes the "permanent items".
Maybe having an item enchanted with gems would activate its "clock of doom" meaning that it would magically vanish in some set time (an irl time of usage, meaning that for example 20days enchanted earring would need to be worn 20days so it would wear out). So that one could sell really good magical stuff, but it would only last, what 15-20days of usage? That seems to work in few other muds as the basic of some merchant made items, and that works pretty nicely. This is one way to keep the current system, adjusting it to a scale like this.

Then again, in this mud where atleast offtanks stats don't seem to mean shit, could prolly take lots of time to get players interested.
(i'd buy a whole set of +3average hpr swap items of this kind tho etcetc.)

Let the eq from eqmonsters be the best 100% permanent gear.
User avatar
dunn
Posts: 162
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 07:23 am
Location: Toronto, Canada

Post by dunn »

These items wouldn't be permanent, they would go into the economy replacing the game stock we already go through, or consumed, and if not they could be sold for a marginal profit. Something on the side, but probably a good income for less experienced players. (Who maybe wouldn't have to loot all the time.)
Things like raw goods would decay if not stored properly. "Soft" goods too, like food.

Osma, you did read incorrectly, but I think you got the right idea. :)
There is no artisan guild per say. Some extended subs (ie, Millers) would require that a person take full Farmer levels to join them, and then could not join other specializing subs (ie, Shepherds or Cooks).

The advantage of Farmers would be that they would not require as much attention as a Jeweller cutting gems and then maybe also working towards making fine items with it, but that the crop would be set, left to grow, then harvested.

Your typical idle highbie guild.

And finally, put to use towards other subs that do require attention in creating a finished good.

I could see certain players want to own a vineyard and be their own brewers. Too many reincs, or going through a DF emergency? Time to break out the aged wine kegs.

We could have a wine tasting event too! (Where you could finally get to drink.) Hmm, for brewers.
Maybe a cooking contest too.
User avatar
moraq
Posts: 194
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 18:48 pm
Location: Kemi, Finland
Contact:

Post by moraq »

Your typical idle highbie guild.
8O~~~~

It would be great if artisans were bunch of open subguilds. Basically, now players that have teh exp to take 80+ levels just take those which have good levelbonuses. If, say, smiths or leatherworkers were open subs, I know I would try to max them, since with those you can actually do something. Ask any high level caster why he/she has taken some levels in the fabulous guild of carpenters - I bet it has nothing to do with desire to craft coffins.

It would be nice to know what percent of carpenters even have a toolset.
User avatar
yoz
Supporting Member 2009
Posts: 226
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 22:02 pm

Post by yoz »

Having coffins makes you a true goth. Then you can roleplay and cybersex with all the attentionwhores and "conehat" roleplayers in this game. WHATS BETTER THAN DESIGNING COFFINS, EH!?!?

ps. Moraq is a monkey
User avatar
suron
Posts: 147
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 16:12 pm
Location: Oulu/Kalajoki, Finland

Post by suron »

yoz wrote: ps. Moraq is a monkey
This one made me smile. Good work Yoz!
User avatar
allanon
Posts: 162
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 02:52 am
Location: 94018

Post by allanon »

I think all I can say is, Wow. Nice job, Dunn!
ozma wrote:All the guilds make sense, but I personaly dont see many people going for farmer.
Let me counter you on that...Firstly, if you check back a ways in the Forums, there is a thread about a "Farmer's Guild", which was met mostly with enthusiasm. I think Zaec was the author.
Secondly, I can personally attest that Farmer is quite a fun thing to do. In dev-world, I managed to code my own little one-plant farm system. It's very rudimentary, but nonetheless it's quite fun to raise the crop and make sure it gets food and water. So I think there will definitely be a place for farmers.
(Besides, farmers get to use "hoes" in their work. That alone should attract some people.)

Few ideas/points:

a) Cooks should be able to open souphouses, and/or there should be a communal one, like in the days of old with Kwll Ceobrin or what's-his-name. It wouldn't be a place to donate items, but rather just a place to get free food. "Manning the kitchen" could be a constant process, the equivalent of "guard duty for cooks". It would increase mastery, or give rep, or...something...Players who receive food also might care to leave tips.

Or we could even have NPCs come in for food...which could be interesting...perhaps cooks could even open restaurants and turn a profit, gaining "culinary reputation" and competing for businesses. Now, THAT would be a wonderful addition to "Artisans", and be one of the most creative things ever introduced to a MUD...or any game, really. 8)

b) Shouldn't Shepherds also care for pigs and chickens, which were typical farm animals also? Pigs would be solely for the meat. Chickens could provide eggs and meat, and feathers. Feathers could be a new crafting material usable by leatherworkers, I suppose...or bring back "feather armor" leatherworking bug. :wink:

c) I thought fine wines were made from grapes. Perhaps "Millers" should also be able to raise vineyards. Or make another sub called "Vinters".

d) Carpenters should be able to craft donation boxes...

e) Lastly, there is one material and profession which is being largely overlooked: Stone, and Masons (essentially smiths who work with stone). Even though it's a crap material for weapons and armours, Masons could manufacture Bricks and such for other builders. Also they could fashion Granite Counters and such for cabins...Fashionable. They would get the raw stone from a Quarry, a type of mine set right onto the mountain but not going under or into it.

Quarries could be built anywhere next to Mountains (^), and thus would not *require* the expert services of a Geologist (though it's a good idea anyways, to find the best stone). Also, just like mines, Quarries require maintenance, and if there is a sudden rockslide...*splat* This would also give Miners another place to work at, and easier to find also (I think).

Sometimes, during mining, there might be a valuable metal vein or a load of gems discovered. If this happens, the Quarry could be converted to a dual Quarry/Mine - stone would still be mined, but miners could also try and dig for the more valuable metals and gemstones.

Lastly, if a mountain is mined for a very, very long time - I'm thinking maybe one RL year or such - the mountain could, theoretically, be mined to the point that it would collapse in on itself and be destroyed. If this happened, the Quarry/Mine would be destroyed, and the Mountain would be replaced by Badlands terrain or such. It would be possible to alter the terrain this way...
This is a block of text that can be added to posts you make. There is a 160 character limit.
User avatar
yoz
Supporting Member 2009
Posts: 226
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 22:02 pm

Post by yoz »

On the other hand, this shite is going way too far, and will collapse on its own complexness. Covering every aspect you can ever imagine of, just ruins it.

Simple = beautiful
User avatar
moraq
Posts: 194
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 18:48 pm
Location: Kemi, Finland
Contact:

Post by moraq »

Yes omg yes!½ we could have bananafarmers who own fields full of banana trees. Their guild item could be a conehat, perhaps a whistle too.

This kind of place would certainly attract monkeyozes.

Just think. then think again and again and more and more and OMG YES!½! if you meditated several centuries on my post you will see the inner light that transpires from it in a way, that piercessss dimensionss and forms a barrier of FLOWERZ AND HAPPINESS around us yessssss!½½!½

Oh, disregard that last paragraph, just having a "sraak moment" here.

Back to the topic, having something like ten different professions in artisans just wouldn't work with our current playerbase. The situation would be horrible if many of them would be dependant on other's work. Maybe in a year or two (or ten?) when we have doubled our active players.
User avatar
yoz
Supporting Member 2009
Posts: 226
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 22:02 pm

Post by yoz »

moraq wrote:Yes omg yes!½ we could have bananafarmers who own fields full of banana trees. Their guild item could be a conehat, perhaps a whistle too.

This kind of place would certainly attract monkeyozes.
OMG YES!1! BANANANAANANFRMRMRS!! COOOL!!!
Giev bananafarming mastery eq, wizzes code it. NOW!!

oh sorry, was having my sraak moment too.

Indeed, nice idea, but having 5million different subguilds certainly is just too much for our ~50 unidle players online at the same time

Ps. moraq is still the monkeeh :(
User avatar
dunn
Posts: 162
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 07:23 am
Location: Toronto, Canada

Post by dunn »

:DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD


giev banananana hat! .. of enlightenment!
Post Reply