Starting Icesus

Share your ideas about the future of the game with other players and wizards.

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hors
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Starting Icesus

Post by hors »

Now everyone starts (and stays for most of the life) in Vaerlon and all other three cities (partially except Graemor) are in fact just exp areas almost without guilds. I understand that this is how historically occurred but think it would be a good thing to change it.

What I have in mind, is that all new players could start not in Vaerlon, but in a certain place in an approximate distance from all cities. Say near Astug in some kind of a friendly fisherman inn with the tutorial, Alice and some mobs. Those mobs could be, for instance, fishers from different cities who gathered there to fish for some rare fish species and are glad to tell a new player about their cities. Having that information one could make a choice of a city and Alice could teleport you there. (Graemor could keep its 1m exp requirenment).

This idea also would require relocating of some guilds to other cities (or close to them). I was thinking about such relocations:

Vaerlon – Army, Air priests, Mages, Templars
(no changes here)

Atherton – Rangers, Fire priests (in future), Monks, Shapeshifters
(Atherton after becoming an independent city could easily become a convenient place for guilds who do not like strict regulations – Rangers, Shifters and Monks. Those guilds should not be in the city itself, they just can be relocated closer to its borders).

Graemor – Earth priests, Shadowdancers, Sorcerers
(A description in a Sorc's guild says anyway that their current location is a temporal and they going to move to Graemor)

Cenedoiss –Water priests, Coven, Infecti
(Water is a caster element. And there are a lot of swamps where water is too. So, these guilds would suit the theme in Cenedoiss too i think).

And wilders to stay in Vekkak of course.

So, this is what I reckon. To make all there cities alive and thriving. What do YOU think?
Last edited by hors on Fri Feb 15, 2008 20:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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zohlor
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Post by zohlor »

It has always disturbed me a bit that the game is so much centered around Vaerlon.

Changing the guild locations sounds like a good start.
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goderic
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Post by goderic »

The scale to which the map would have to be redrawn probably rules this idea out. I do agree with your point about the game being focussed on vaerlon though, but I'd suggest as future guilds (even opens and subs) are released, they be sited in other cities. Fire Priests to Atherton, naturally. Perhaps the new artesans and falconers too, if they ever happen. New caster stuff around Cenedoiss or Graemor (if it has a sinister aspect!)
hors
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Post by hors »

Redrawing map is a different thing. Though, of course, I would like the valley to be of not a rectangular shape. But moving guilds should be easier. Coven’s subs have been moved a few times across the valley. So moving rangers to Atherton garden or mental asylum to one of cenedoiss islands should not require intensive recoding. Well, I believe so. I can be wrong.
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klarh
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Post by klarh »

More reasons to leave the area surrounding Vaerlon, Atherton, and the road in between sounds like a Good Thing(TM) to me.
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odovacar
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Post by odovacar »

I think this is a good idea. I would like to see more diversity in players' home cities and I think it could be very beneficial to the idea of grand plot (in some form or another), which I also like. But, I think the problem is not that some (or most) guilds are located in a single city. It's that choosing a guild dictates your city affiliation. This is too rigid. If you want to be a mage your parents should fool around vaerlon? If you want to be a necromancer, should your parents violate corpses in Graemor? Not necessarily!

Therefore I suggest... (drumroll)... the franchise revolution!
Consider the following scenario: You're little Zomgosh, playing with your little zombie friends in downtown Graemor, but deep inside you want to heal all the cute people and do the nasty with men. So you sneak around to the hidden Graemor chapter of NAMBLA^H^H^H^H^H^H the air priests guild and they teach you how to touch people in certain ways to make them feel better. But you can only go so far in stinky old straight Graemor. The healers there are too kinky and cannot teach you all the tricks of the trade. So eventually you have to make the pilgrimage to the secret air priest bath-house in Vaerlon to become a master of your crapft.

In other words, most guilds should have their first few levels available in every town. Higher levels and specialized subs should be placed in a specific place, matching the guild general theme. Of couse, some details should be worked out. For example, renaming the army chapter in SomeTown to "Militia of SomeTown", etc. In addition, guilds which are opposed or don't exactly match a city's theme can be hidden in/out/below/above the city (or not be there at all).
To encourage settlement in a city, perhaps some city related boosts can be introduced. One probably knows his hometown better so a bonus to pathfinding around your home town might be given. Or some hunting bonuses. Or herbalism and such. Maybe specializing in a guild which matches the town theme should give you a rep modification. There are still details to be worked out, but I think the whole concept is more flexible than the current state of affairs.

Along with distributing new areas evenly around cities, this will definitely make the game less centralized. Newbies can start the game anywhere they want and get to know other cities as they specialize. Intra-city and inter-city plots can be better developed.
And we can introduce secret handshakes ZOMG!
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sraak
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i agree

Post by sraak »

the game is too much concentrated around Vaerlon, roads and some few other places.

codewise i have no idea how big this would be, but simply moving one guild to another is very simple indeed. what would be the consequenses of moving is totally another thing. probably it affects only to players after that, nothing more.

of course moving from one important place to another would eat your EP, so someone might say that df tick costs should be adjusted.
apog
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Post by apog »

I wouldn't mind seeing lockers to other cities as well.
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iluth
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Post by iluth »

I always wanted to live in Vekkak :shock: but lack of a fur trader and fire altar made that kinda difficult.

I really like the idea of having certain types of players hanging out in different communities, tied by the guilds they choose.

But it's not just exp areas and guilds that keep players stuck in Vaerlon. That long awaited mail system would help players be able to trade without having to use the ubiquitous "vaerlon bank plz" when selling and buying items from other players. Also lockers, cantrip trainers and maybe most importantly, not having Vaerlon as the default starting city, but making newbies choose a city in the creation proccess.
To encourage settlement in a city, perhaps some city related boosts can be introduced. One probably knows his hometown better so a bonus to pathfinding around your home town might be given. Or some hunting bonuses. Or herbalism and such.
This is a really neat idea, and adds a lot to the point of belonging to a city. The reputation system could be used to give players a bit more civic pride also. Like a nice title for those dedicated enough to grind upper rep adjectives such as "Protector of Vaerlon" or possibly a "Scourge of Vaerlon" title for those who grind those elf maids for their lovely glowing silk robes.
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aarmon
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Post by aarmon »

Perhaps some City related Quest Chains and/or a little Bonus to the Attributes/Skills for choosing a certain town.
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goderic
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Post by goderic »

Also: eace city needs an 'Ereldon' - type figure to dispense information and the odd boost. like his healing. And perhaps a Pugi every Christmas too, each with a different effect?
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allanon
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Post by allanon »

Technically, there are sages like Ereldon in all cities (maybe not Vekkak), but they don't cast Healing Wind, give quest info, slap you for whining, etc. They just teleport you. On the other hand, it would be not so good if each city was as well equipped as Vaerlon is - that may give players a false illusion that it's no big disadvantage and/or reduce the...prestige? proof of experience?...that comes with living in somewhere else. Having half the players move out to Graemor or Atherton would make Varlon pretty deserted anyways. And then city populations would really start to reflect how high level people are...Vaerlon for newbies.
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yoz
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Post by yoz »

hors wrote: What I have in mind, is that all new players could start not in Vaerlon, but in a certain place in an approximate distance from all cities. Say near Astug in some kind of a friendly fisherman inn with the tutorial, Alice and some mobs. Those mobs could be, for instance, fishers from different cities who gathered there to fish for some rare fish species and are glad to tell a new player about their cities. Having that information one could make a choice of a city and Alice could teleport you there. (Graemor could keep its 1m exp requirenment).
This sounds like a valid idea.
hors wrote: This idea also would require relocating of some guilds to other cities (or close to them). I was thinking about such relocations:

Vaerlon – Army, Air priests, Mages, Templars
(no changes here)

Atherton – Rangers, Fire priests (in future), Monks, Shapeshifters
(Atherton after becoming an independent city could easily become a convenient place for guilds who do not like strict regulations – Rangers, Shifters and Monks. Those guilds should not be in the city itself, they just can be relocated closer to its borders).

Graemor – Earth priests, Shadowdancers, Sorcerers
(A description in a Sorc's guild says anyway that their current location is a temporal and they going to move to Graemor)

Cenedoiss –Water priests, Coven, Infecti
(Water is a caster element. And there are a lot of swamps where water is too. So, these guilds would suit the theme in Cenedoiss too i think).

And wilders to stay in Vekkak of course.
I absolutely hate the idea of binding guilds to cities in any means.
hors wrote: So, this is what I reckon. To make all there cities alive and thriving. What do YOU think?
The thing is that none of the other cities has been given any effort at all except vaerlon. Think of raising any other city's reputation for example. How do you exactly do that?

Being from any other city than vaerlon as long as we have the "restrictions" that we have now is just plain retarded (unless you want to be from some cityspecific guild ofc XDXD)

Few Downsides:
Nonvaerlonians cannot join militia sec. No other city has army/any real protectors that would actually serve a purpose in protecting their city. (would be fun to actually see an army guild in each city.) All other city reputations are near impossible to raise. Everything is centered around vaerlon and all other cities are coded running uphill. Totally useless without any features to even try to make them usable. Its a pity, but thats how it is.

allanon wrote:Technically, there are sages like Ereldon in all cities (maybe not Vekkak)
Afaik there are sages only in Graemor and Vaerlon.
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