Edit: perhaps nix the use to mimic player characters idea, and leave it with mobs (perhaps mobs you kill, once again)
Ok lemme know if this is completely bogus.. but:
A "Disguise" skill/feature. (skill something like "Art of Disguise" etc.)
Used on any mob or player to adapt their description (and appear to any player or mob as this new character/mob.)
As sdancers already have hide/stab, this skill would probably best serve as being completely non-offensive. (yet it would be very realistic, and great rp-wise. Also, it wouldn't be completely useles.)
Probably a more expensive skill, and maybe w/ set time duration, or just low success rate to make it a bit inconvienient (So sdancers didn't always walk around w/ fake names on).
Also, there should be something slightly askew with the characters descriptions when looked at (closely)- so players would know.
ALSO, of course, returning to a room of the mob you copied would make it aggro (perhaps to make it a spell, and to be required to use head/heart/skin, or whatnot.. make it even more realistic and assassinish- killing a mob and taking its identity.)
To solve the problem of "what happens when a player attacks you thinking you're a mob?" When in disguise one cannot attack, or be attacked, tho, when ATTACKED, the disguise is compromised and your true form is revealed..
I think this would be an AWESOME addition to the sdancer guild:) and not only saying this cuz i'm an sdancer. The skill would be fun, entertaining, and somewhat useful.
(More useful than shadow sense atm, imho.)
-Apex
Shadowdancer skill idea
Moderator: Moderators
It still feels like an idea that would be better suited for a bard guild (since they are the world's charmers) since disguising as someone else requires more than just putting on their clothes. You need to be able to convince other players (and mobs) of your movements, manner of speech, mannerisms etc...these require a healthy dose of charisma and perhaps intelligence which are a bard's trade, not assassin.
I had more of a "using other's appearances to sneak around" idea tho. More of a "steal this mob's appearance in order to NOT be noticed" the whole art of disguise and deciet thing.
Perhaps it would work with both guilds, under different names and conventions? Cuz you're right, a bard would be better at acting in disguise (char.)
t's why my idea for Sdancers woudl be that upon attack (or perhaps even close, or numerous greetings) your disguise would be compromised...
But I think it would really be a cool skill, no matter where it was implemented
Perhaps it would work with both guilds, under different names and conventions? Cuz you're right, a bard would be better at acting in disguise (char.)
t's why my idea for Sdancers woudl be that upon attack (or perhaps even close, or numerous greetings) your disguise would be compromised...
But I think it would really be a cool skill, no matter where it was implemented
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artic
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I didnt want to make a new post, but i have a new idea for a skill too.
See currently move silently does not seem to have an effect on sneaking behind players. So to successfully stab teh shadowdancer has to predict where its prey is going to go and be there first and hide. This results in shadowdancers sitting at the ferry of graemor or in the rift room. (Not many do this this days but when there were other guilds too in graemor that was common practice.) But even is you were waiting there the victim would just run past you hurriedly so you couldnt even prepare to stab em.
What im suggesting is some sort of a trap. Say a shadowdancer places a trap on one of the exits of the room. Only one exit can be trapped. if a victime now enters the room, nothing happens. if victim leaves through the not-trapped exit, nothing happens, bad luck on the shadodancers part. But if the player chooses to leave through the trapped exit, he would get cought in the trap. He could struggle free (Similar to fleeing battle) in a time that would be dependant on both the shadowdancers skill in placing the trap and some properties of the victime as well. But the time a victime struggles in a trap would allow the shadowdancer to stabb them in the back. Of course all this means the shadowdancer had to be hidden when the player entered- otherwize the player would know who threatens him and would just start a figh (disallowing the dancer to use his most powerful tool) and flee imediatelly (if he feels he can not win). Also other shadowdancers could be given the common detect trap skill, wich would automaticly worn if a trap is found (detection chance would depend on the skill % and the skill of the traps placer).
This skill would more effectively allow shadowdancers to hunt players in graemor. because PK is not allowed anywhere else, it would be almost use less outside graemor, other than maybe gladiator arena, but the skill could take so long it would be suicide to use it there. Also if mobs could get stuck in trap shadowdancers could use it to kill the mobs that now simply move too fast to stab and that should not affect balance too much - there are not a lot of monsters that move fast enough (only maybe shadowdancer slay event
)
At higher levels maybe traps that deal poison damage could be invented, but that would be somehting of use, so it wount be implemented anyway.
Also the trap might not always work, and if a party moves it might not always spiring at the first person (leader) to move. Every person would go through the 'trap-check' individualy so the trap migh even jump at the wimpy mage in the back row and leave him defenceless and alone
Also being stuck in a trap would hinder the mobility of the victim a bit, so if he sees the shaodancer and desides to start a figh to save himself from the stab, hed be a bit slower and would not be as mobile.
And dont think the being stuck in the trap time would be something incredibly long- a strong character would break free really fast. A midbie char would break free just about as fast as a sd can stab and a weak char would get the stab and be a bit hindered for a little while longer.
feedback? The detect trap/place trap system has been given to the thief/assasin class in all the world of RPG why not in icesus.? And i dont think it would hurt the idea of shadowdancers much. They have always been clever little backstabbing poison useing below belt hitting bastards and they will be it for a long long time
See currently move silently does not seem to have an effect on sneaking behind players. So to successfully stab teh shadowdancer has to predict where its prey is going to go and be there first and hide. This results in shadowdancers sitting at the ferry of graemor or in the rift room. (Not many do this this days but when there were other guilds too in graemor that was common practice.) But even is you were waiting there the victim would just run past you hurriedly so you couldnt even prepare to stab em.
What im suggesting is some sort of a trap. Say a shadowdancer places a trap on one of the exits of the room. Only one exit can be trapped. if a victime now enters the room, nothing happens. if victim leaves through the not-trapped exit, nothing happens, bad luck on the shadodancers part. But if the player chooses to leave through the trapped exit, he would get cought in the trap. He could struggle free (Similar to fleeing battle) in a time that would be dependant on both the shadowdancers skill in placing the trap and some properties of the victime as well. But the time a victime struggles in a trap would allow the shadowdancer to stabb them in the back. Of course all this means the shadowdancer had to be hidden when the player entered- otherwize the player would know who threatens him and would just start a figh (disallowing the dancer to use his most powerful tool) and flee imediatelly (if he feels he can not win). Also other shadowdancers could be given the common detect trap skill, wich would automaticly worn if a trap is found (detection chance would depend on the skill % and the skill of the traps placer).
This skill would more effectively allow shadowdancers to hunt players in graemor. because PK is not allowed anywhere else, it would be almost use less outside graemor, other than maybe gladiator arena, but the skill could take so long it would be suicide to use it there. Also if mobs could get stuck in trap shadowdancers could use it to kill the mobs that now simply move too fast to stab and that should not affect balance too much - there are not a lot of monsters that move fast enough (only maybe shadowdancer slay event
)At higher levels maybe traps that deal poison damage could be invented, but that would be somehting of use, so it wount be implemented anyway.
Also the trap might not always work, and if a party moves it might not always spiring at the first person (leader) to move. Every person would go through the 'trap-check' individualy so the trap migh even jump at the wimpy mage in the back row and leave him defenceless and alone
Also being stuck in a trap would hinder the mobility of the victim a bit, so if he sees the shaodancer and desides to start a figh to save himself from the stab, hed be a bit slower and would not be as mobile.
And dont think the being stuck in the trap time would be something incredibly long- a strong character would break free really fast. A midbie char would break free just about as fast as a sd can stab and a weak char would get the stab and be a bit hindered for a little while longer.
feedback? The detect trap/place trap system has been given to the thief/assasin class in all the world of RPG why not in icesus.? And i dont think it would hurt the idea of shadowdancers much. They have always been clever little backstabbing poison useing below belt hitting bastards and they will be it for a long long time
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solar
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About that disguise thing...
Apex posted an idea about shadowdancers' disguising skills... I wish to point out that if this is ever to be implemented, it shouldn't be possible for small races to disguise themselves as large ones... and vice versa.
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artic
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Shadow sense! A skill that helps an assasin find a player anywhere in the universe. It doesnt even work on NPC's. Not even in smaller universes where there is only you and an NPC like the challenge arena. The skill is designed for shaodwdancers to be able to find their victims, without the victims knowing that they are being hunted. (The skill also has a slight suicidal effect if used on a wizardfelgand wrote:On a mud such as Icesus, which prides itself on an excellent community/party system...I seriously doubt a skill with no other application than assisting in killing another player will ever see the light of day. Sorry.
) but is still a skill only designed to help an assasin PK. Such a skill exists. It has seen the light of day, felgand.The second use for this skill currently is newbie guidance. If a newbie boasts that he is lost in some area and cant be teleported than i can locate him and then talk him out of the area. I have even helped a coupl of people out of the mines near vaerlon wich is apparently a no rift-no teleport area. But this use of the skill is non intensional and its not widely used, for some reason assasins dont want to help people, it has something to do with the hole assasin theme kinda thing
And my idea was not designed to help only PK, it was to help using the skill backstab and hinder someone (also mobs not just players) who try to escape a figh. Like Ceawin says :'Only a wimp would run from a good fight!'. Say a mob has the tendency to move (like kruric, who moves from hes place to go replenish the specter) and i have fough him till he is alreay nigs and i dont want him to move. So i sneak in, place a trap, and once he tries to move he becomes a weaker (slower) target for me, wich allowes me to kill it faster and prevent the situation of having to fight a vbs kruric and a specter at once.
So yes the skill helps me PK, and that migh be its best use, but it wouldnt realease a flud of PK because PK is still only allowed in graemor and to catch someone in a trap they would still have to come to graemor. It would make assasins more dangerous, yes, but currently (Like when you attacked our guild) none of us could use backstab at you, because either you were moving too fast, or you were hiding in an unaccessible room. this would allow us to slow you down, separate the weak from the herd and fight more like sneaky assasins. And it wouldnt be a miracle bomb. I sayd the trap might not work, i sayd the player might break free before he gets stabbed, i also sayd that if dancer is too sloppy he can stab anyway and will prolly flee himself. So before you just put your foot down, think about the idea, and maybe even propose some changes that would make it more suitable for youe needs. Currently it seems that the low level shaodow dancers are coming up with idea after idea, that would make em a bit stronger, but some balance in the fight between graemor and vaerlon, but still not too strong, and you are just trampeling any chance of it down.
You've given an instance already where shadowsense is not used for pk purposes. Also, unlike your idea about traps...shadowsense does no damage to its target at all, nor does it hinder its target in any way. In that sense, yes, you can locate people very accurately...but you're not crippling them or making them more suceptible to a pkill. Traps do.
If traps worked on mobs/creatures, then you open things up to abuse. Many mobiles walk in predictable patterns that a shadowdancer could use to their (abusive) advantage and place directional traps across the entire length of their path, so by the time the mobile reaches the end...bam, they're already at aD and poisoned. Definately seems overpowered to me.
If traps did not work on mobiles and only on players...then you have a skill made purely for pkilling and nothing else. Traps can't help other players out of tough situations and can't help you exp without becoming very abusable...the only thing they'd do is (from your example) damage players, prevent players for an indeterminate amount of time (no other player skill can do this, by the way), deal poison damage, and leave a player completely vulnerable to a stab at no penalty or effort for the shadowdancer (aside from the minor amount of time spent laying down the trap).
If traps worked on mobs/creatures, then you open things up to abuse. Many mobiles walk in predictable patterns that a shadowdancer could use to their (abusive) advantage and place directional traps across the entire length of their path, so by the time the mobile reaches the end...bam, they're already at aD and poisoned. Definately seems overpowered to me.
If traps did not work on mobiles and only on players...then you have a skill made purely for pkilling and nothing else. Traps can't help other players out of tough situations and can't help you exp without becoming very abusable...the only thing they'd do is (from your example) damage players, prevent players for an indeterminate amount of time (no other player skill can do this, by the way), deal poison damage, and leave a player completely vulnerable to a stab at no penalty or effort for the shadowdancer (aside from the minor amount of time spent laying down the trap).
Re: About that disguise thing...
absolutely agreed, Solarsolar wrote:Apex posted an idea about shadowdancers' disguising skills... I wish to point out that if this is ever to be implemented, it shouldn't be possible for small races to disguise themselves as large ones... and vice versa.
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artic
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First trap damage: Only one trap could be layd at a time, the damage would come from a shadowdancer, not from the trap. I did mention the at higher level traps could also do damage, but I also sayd that it would be unlikely that this would be implemented.felgand wrote: If traps worked on mobs/creatures, then you open things up to abuse. Many mobiles walk in predictable patterns that a shadowdancer could use to their (abusive) advantage and place directional traps across the entire length of their path, so by the time the mobile reaches the end...bam, they're already at aD and poisoned. Definately seems overpowered to me.
If traps did not work on mobiles and only on players...then you have a skill made purely for pkilling and nothing else. Traps can't help other players out of tough situations and can't help you exp without becoming very abusable...the only thing they'd do is (from your example) damage players, prevent players for an indeterminate amount of time (no other player skill can do this, by the way), deal poison damage, and leave a player completely vulnerable to a stab at no penalty or effort for the shadowdancer (aside from the minor amount of time spent laying down the trap).
Second: what if the new skill is nothing like any other currently existing skill? Must all skill ideas be similar/copies of an existing skill? Is it better when i ask that shadowdancer were able to cast ball of darkness in the manner that mages cast ball of fire?
Third: Instead of whining about the tradeoff between time and tamage, make a suggestion that the trap placing would take so much time and it would fail so often (not be sprung when the victim walks over it etc) that it would only rarely hinder a victim.
But enough of this, it is already very clear that no idea that offers new options to other players than yourself, is any good in you eyes. And that is not to insult you, it is simply an conclusion i have come to, after reading all your replies to the couple of topics spawned in the past few days.
I'm the first to jump on the bandwagon for skills that are unique and useful. However, the idea of traps that you present have no other perceivable purpose other than attacking other players to pkill them. That is what I'm arguing against.
It's interesting that you've come to such a conclusion about me, especially since I wrote a reasonably lengthy post under Misrobo's courier idea which BENEFITS shadowdancers *gasp*, offers you new options of of play, a means to gain exp other than the "packman" style, and benefits more people than just a single guild. I'm arguing so adamantly against the ideas posted on the topics under War and this one because solutions to most of the points posed already exist (except for lockers in Graemor and mounts being ferryable). There are exp areas surrounding Graemor that are suitable for shadowdancers to fight in and make money, means of quick travel to other parts of the world without needing any chronomancer levels at all (granted, you can't bring a mount), and reasonable rules in place for city/guild defense.
In addition to this, I have offered alternative solutions that allow shadowdancers to be able to act upon their role as an assassin (ie. contracts being made on guild invaders which dancers can buy and have a 1-chance free pk rights on the invade outside of Graemor), supported ideas and concerns that I believe also make sense from my experience in the game, and have tried to explain as clearly and exactly as possibly my reasons for believing the remainder of the points posed were either not applicable to shadowdancers or would not be suitable.
My attempts here are not to insult nor to belittle your concerns, but to provide a different view on these issues that you (the people who have posted) feel so strongly about. Try being a shadowdancer above 100m in totals, or even one as skilled as Azar...you'll quickly find that most, if not all, of the concerns posted in this thread and that under War are not as plausible as you may believe them to be.
It's interesting that you've come to such a conclusion about me, especially since I wrote a reasonably lengthy post under Misrobo's courier idea which BENEFITS shadowdancers *gasp*, offers you new options of of play, a means to gain exp other than the "packman" style, and benefits more people than just a single guild. I'm arguing so adamantly against the ideas posted on the topics under War and this one because solutions to most of the points posed already exist (except for lockers in Graemor and mounts being ferryable). There are exp areas surrounding Graemor that are suitable for shadowdancers to fight in and make money, means of quick travel to other parts of the world without needing any chronomancer levels at all (granted, you can't bring a mount), and reasonable rules in place for city/guild defense.
In addition to this, I have offered alternative solutions that allow shadowdancers to be able to act upon their role as an assassin (ie. contracts being made on guild invaders which dancers can buy and have a 1-chance free pk rights on the invade outside of Graemor), supported ideas and concerns that I believe also make sense from my experience in the game, and have tried to explain as clearly and exactly as possibly my reasons for believing the remainder of the points posed were either not applicable to shadowdancers or would not be suitable.
My attempts here are not to insult nor to belittle your concerns, but to provide a different view on these issues that you (the people who have posted) feel so strongly about. Try being a shadowdancer above 100m in totals, or even one as skilled as Azar...you'll quickly find that most, if not all, of the concerns posted in this thread and that under War are not as plausible as you may believe them to be.