From a number of threads it sounds like there are Shadowdancers with a pent up need to stab players. I propose an idea to give them players that will willingly agree to risk being stabbed.
Some place, the vaerlon palace perhaps, would have an office where you could sign up to transport official documents. This would be called courier duty. At a later time you could return to the office and stop being a courier.
During the time a player is a courier he would be fair game for shadowdancers. They could go to some anti-vaerlon place in their city, get a list of current couriers, purchase a contract to kill a specific courier (without nethereffects), and be paid for the job upon completion.
In order to entice players into being couriers, they would receive experience bonus during the period when they are a courier. (Seems to make sense, they are risking exp, so pay in exp. Also, making the bonus be exp will require the courier to do normal active things, rather than run and hide a lot. Maybe +vaerlon rep or money would get players to do it too.)
There are many factors to be tweaked and tuned to make this playable. The reward for players must entice enough of them to take courier duty to keep the shadowdancers happy. The shadowdancer rewards need to be scaled so that there isn't a good incentive for a very high level shadowdancer to slaughter a lowbie courier, save them for the lowbie shadowdancers. Given how long it will take a shadowdancer to get the contract and come for the courier the couriers will need to keep their status for a long time, say one game week minimum.
On a personal note, I'm all for giving the shadowdancers players to stab, but willing players. For a nice incentive, I would be a courier about 50% of the time. I would not be a courier while leveling. I don't want to be killed with a week's worth of exp on. When just toodling around and training I could be enticed into being a target.
The big open issue I have is that as I describe this a shadowdancer could have his low exp buddy take duty and get executed for the shadowdancer's benefit. Maybe this isn't a problem is the policy is clearly stated that such behavior is abuse. It is difficult to balance this away, you need to make a significant penalty to being killed while a courier, but that means you need a bigger reward to make people accept the risk. Harder to tune. Likewise, a player could take courier duty and have his buddy shadowdancer buy the contract, but not execute it, giving him a free ride. Also should be outlawed.
(And yes, I realize I am proposing couriers that don't actually deliver things. Making a bunch of stuff to be hauled around and places to deliver would be a bunch of coding and between chronomancers and long legged mounts distance doesn't mean much. So lets just pretend that have a lot of little notes that they are passing off to a lot of people as they meet them.)
Courier Duty
Moderator: Moderators
-
artic
- Supporting Member 2005
- Posts: 475
- Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 15:54 pm
- Location: Tallinn, Estonia
Not many people would risk this sort of things, yet it would be fun to. I would certainly like to hunt these couriers and i would also offer myself as courier.
Also to avoid the abouse of a player being a courier for too long cause hes buddy wont kill him. The contract of a shadowdancer would expire at some time allowing others to have a chance, or multiple shadowdancers take one contract at a time (they are always fighting amongst each other, why chouldn they figh over the contracts).
Also the exp bonus (or any other bonus couriers get) should be made level dependant, so that it would be bigger for lower level players. This way some level 80+ players wouldn start to abuse it- if they become couriers no shadowdancer can kill em thus they get an eternal bonus.
In general i think its one of the best ideas ever posted on this forum. Its brilliant!! I salute you misrobo!!
Also to avoid the abouse of a player being a courier for too long cause hes buddy wont kill him. The contract of a shadowdancer would expire at some time allowing others to have a chance, or multiple shadowdancers take one contract at a time (they are always fighting amongst each other, why chouldn they figh over the contracts).
Also the exp bonus (or any other bonus couriers get) should be made level dependant, so that it would be bigger for lower level players. This way some level 80+ players wouldn start to abuse it- if they become couriers no shadowdancer can kill em thus they get an eternal bonus.
In general i think its one of the best ideas ever posted on this forum. Its brilliant!! I salute you misrobo!!
misrobo: nice idea, it sounds like it would be fun for both sides.
artic: I would volunteer to be a courier. And I think more people would than you think, because it's optional, so you're not forced to "risk" anything. I'm sure bored people with no exp on would go for it. I disagree with the lower bonus for higher level players though. Even if the bonus were the same regardless of level, it would be more pointless for a higher level player. Instead i think, the bonus should be greater, but the task be more difficult, and be much easier to be attacked by a shadowdancer (easier for an assassin to find/get to i guess? different destinations?). You know.. *speaks vaguely so she won't give too much info away* sort of like those other guild quests. They get harder to do (for example i dunno.. collect wyvern hearts instead of carrion crawler hearts) but you get paid more, and it's just as "worthless" now as it was then
About shadowdancers generally, i've never been one, but partying and speaking with them you get the gist of what it's all about. Hmm.. not sure where to stick this part because of all the different posts about shadowdancers around now, but I guess I'll just keep it here as one post.
I can understand why they're unhappy, and why it would happen during a time when their guild has been under attack. I think this idea is a great start. Because frankly, it seems templars can rp well, and exp well. But shadowdancers is all about the rp. I wouldnt reinc to a shadowdancer for exp. Even defending their guild in their hometown they were at a disadvantage, because there are so many ways to place them at a disadvantage, because everyone knows their achilles heel (lets go regen in the void where we're completely safe from retaliation, or lets carry 500 torches and make it too bright for them to stab, or lets cast at them while theyre hidden). I think they just want things to be fair, not to go on some mass pk frenzy. If it were fair they could call on all the other guards to help them attack, like vaerlon
And I can see how it can end up being templar vs shadowdancer. Templars have the best town on the mud to defend, they exp well, they can RP well if they wanted to. Shadowdancers have that deserted one guild 5 player town in the middle of nowhere, who still rely on the templar town, who are more limited with exp. If i were to reinc right now, and have to choose between templar and shadowdancer, I'd go with templar I guess :/ But i would really like to go for shadowdancer, there just isn't much pulling me in to that guild, especially not the extra hassles involved.
If any templars or shadowdancers disagree then so be it, enlighten me. The more I learn the better.
artic: I would volunteer to be a courier. And I think more people would than you think, because it's optional, so you're not forced to "risk" anything. I'm sure bored people with no exp on would go for it. I disagree with the lower bonus for higher level players though. Even if the bonus were the same regardless of level, it would be more pointless for a higher level player. Instead i think, the bonus should be greater, but the task be more difficult, and be much easier to be attacked by a shadowdancer (easier for an assassin to find/get to i guess? different destinations?). You know.. *speaks vaguely so she won't give too much info away* sort of like those other guild quests. They get harder to do (for example i dunno.. collect wyvern hearts instead of carrion crawler hearts) but you get paid more, and it's just as "worthless" now as it was then
About shadowdancers generally, i've never been one, but partying and speaking with them you get the gist of what it's all about. Hmm.. not sure where to stick this part because of all the different posts about shadowdancers around now, but I guess I'll just keep it here as one post.
I can understand why they're unhappy, and why it would happen during a time when their guild has been under attack. I think this idea is a great start. Because frankly, it seems templars can rp well, and exp well. But shadowdancers is all about the rp. I wouldnt reinc to a shadowdancer for exp. Even defending their guild in their hometown they were at a disadvantage, because there are so many ways to place them at a disadvantage, because everyone knows their achilles heel (lets go regen in the void where we're completely safe from retaliation, or lets carry 500 torches and make it too bright for them to stab, or lets cast at them while theyre hidden). I think they just want things to be fair, not to go on some mass pk frenzy. If it were fair they could call on all the other guards to help them attack, like vaerlon
And I can see how it can end up being templar vs shadowdancer. Templars have the best town on the mud to defend, they exp well, they can RP well if they wanted to. Shadowdancers have that deserted one guild 5 player town in the middle of nowhere, who still rely on the templar town, who are more limited with exp. If i were to reinc right now, and have to choose between templar and shadowdancer, I'd go with templar I guess :/ But i would really like to go for shadowdancer, there just isn't much pulling me in to that guild, especially not the extra hassles involved.If any templars or shadowdancers disagree then so be it, enlighten me. The more I learn the better.
Courier service sounds like an excellent idea for both players with small and large totals alike. I believe this serves a much better purpose that the other solutions posted thus far as it provides a competitive, fun environment without opening the floodgates for mass pk which is not suitable for Icesus. To help prevent "cheating" the system, several ideas:
1.) Couriers that are killed lose some Vaerlon rep relative to their level and are prevented from becoming a courier again for a period of time. The reward for staying alive and fulfilling the service results in a small salary paid each Icesusian day and a reasonable exp rate bonus. These bonuses are lowered greatly if no contract has been taken out on the courtier.
2.) Dancers who take out contracts are given a "grace period" of 1 Icesusian day to catch and assassinate their courier. After this time, they steadily lose guild devotion for not having completed their task in a timely manner. Returned contracts nullify this drain. If a dancer returns the contract, they cannot take out a new one on that courier again. Perhaps have the number of contracts allowable dependant upon the total exp of the courier.
3.) Like you stated, courtiers remain free game for 1 Icesusian week the moment they agree to deliver the documents. In the same hand, courtiers are free to attempt to kill their assassin, nullifying that given contract. This reduces the number of "open" contracts available on that courier. It takes 1 full Icesusian day (2 rl hours) for a used contract to open again.
4.) When a contract is served, dancers receive a one-time (significant) exp, devotion, and money bonus for completing it that is scaled to the difficulty of the contract for them to complete.
5.) Couriers entering a safe room, going linkdead, leaving the game, etc for a period greater than 1-5 minutes automatically suspend any active contracts. Once a courier reenters an area where they can be attacked, the dancer is given an option whether or not to reopen the contract without having to run back to Graemor (they are notified if the courier enters any of these areas, of course).
1.) Couriers that are killed lose some Vaerlon rep relative to their level and are prevented from becoming a courier again for a period of time. The reward for staying alive and fulfilling the service results in a small salary paid each Icesusian day and a reasonable exp rate bonus. These bonuses are lowered greatly if no contract has been taken out on the courtier.
2.) Dancers who take out contracts are given a "grace period" of 1 Icesusian day to catch and assassinate their courier. After this time, they steadily lose guild devotion for not having completed their task in a timely manner. Returned contracts nullify this drain. If a dancer returns the contract, they cannot take out a new one on that courier again. Perhaps have the number of contracts allowable dependant upon the total exp of the courier.
3.) Like you stated, courtiers remain free game for 1 Icesusian week the moment they agree to deliver the documents. In the same hand, courtiers are free to attempt to kill their assassin, nullifying that given contract. This reduces the number of "open" contracts available on that courier. It takes 1 full Icesusian day (2 rl hours) for a used contract to open again.
4.) When a contract is served, dancers receive a one-time (significant) exp, devotion, and money bonus for completing it that is scaled to the difficulty of the contract for them to complete.
5.) Couriers entering a safe room, going linkdead, leaving the game, etc for a period greater than 1-5 minutes automatically suspend any active contracts. Once a courier reenters an area where they can be attacked, the dancer is given an option whether or not to reopen the contract without having to run back to Graemor (they are notified if the courier enters any of these areas, of course).
Ayumi:
It's not a matter of whether the current crop of shadowdancers will suddenly become pk-ravenous cretins and start preying on everybody that walks by...but to open up a system that allows for the plausibility of someone in the future to take advantage of a loophole and go on a mass pkilling spree is not wise. Shadowdancers have their weaknesses, true, but in the same sense their ability to hide at all gives them an exceptional advantage. Especially when only half or less of the available classes in the game even have a means to bring one out of hiding. And of those that do, they have no sure-fire means to do so unless they believe the dancer is already in the room without other nasty creatures in it. While they may not always get off a backstab, they probably have one of the best means to evade capture.
It's also interesting to note that shadowdancers in the not-so-distant-past were considered one of the best guilds for gaining exp while solo'ing. It's quite interesting that folks now are arguing the complete opposite.
It's not a matter of whether the current crop of shadowdancers will suddenly become pk-ravenous cretins and start preying on everybody that walks by...but to open up a system that allows for the plausibility of someone in the future to take advantage of a loophole and go on a mass pkilling spree is not wise. Shadowdancers have their weaknesses, true, but in the same sense their ability to hide at all gives them an exceptional advantage. Especially when only half or less of the available classes in the game even have a means to bring one out of hiding. And of those that do, they have no sure-fire means to do so unless they believe the dancer is already in the room without other nasty creatures in it. While they may not always get off a backstab, they probably have one of the best means to evade capture.
It's also interesting to note that shadowdancers in the not-so-distant-past were considered one of the best guilds for gaining exp while solo'ing. It's quite interesting that folks now are arguing the complete opposite.
The best thing is that this would be an _option_. Player would _volunteer_ to be chased. If you're not interested in putting your life (and exp) on the line then just play like you have until now. Just great!! Count me in for the mice's team and let there be lot of cats chasing us. Felgand, about the whole "sdancers used to be considered best expers" comment (To lazy to quote)-
A) The world has changed a LOT since then... and the shadowdancers haven't (at all.. really-)
B) I don't know if i can directly disagree, because we are great for solo exp.. but for those that aren't just "Pac-men" this doesn't always work:P... You'd just figure that an "assassins" guild would have such a great capacity for role-play and scenarios, and meaning.. thats all i'm looking for.
I'm not looking for exp, or money, or people to stab.. just meaning. I love being a shadowdancer, it is great fun, and I love the concept.. now I just need to feel the concept and Icesus agreeing on something...
(Or perhaps just to see some change at all would be refreshing!)
A) The world has changed a LOT since then... and the shadowdancers haven't (at all.. really-)
B) I don't know if i can directly disagree, because we are great for solo exp.. but for those that aren't just "Pac-men" this doesn't always work:P... You'd just figure that an "assassins" guild would have such a great capacity for role-play and scenarios, and meaning.. thats all i'm looking for.
I'm not looking for exp, or money, or people to stab.. just meaning. I love being a shadowdancer, it is great fun, and I love the concept.. now I just need to feel the concept and Icesus agreeing on something...
(Or perhaps just to see some change at all would be refreshing!)