Graemor- why you cant spank a thief.

[artic]

I was wondering why the thieves at graemor are considered bad for graemorian reputation. I mean Seems kind of strange if a city holds such scum dearly. Anway, than i realised it- them thives are paying the corrupt guards some protection money it seems.
So wouldn't it be nice if this 'feat' would expand to players aswell. Players could pay some 'protection fee' to the guards at the gate. If the mobile guards notice a brawl, they check if one of the fighting players has payed his protection fees lately and if he has, the guard will aggro at the attackers of that player.
To pay for protection you _have_ to be a citicen of graemor. If a player that has payed for protection is killed the killer(s) get bad rep in graemor: just like when you kill them thieves.
Protecton fees should be level dependant, so that high-level players would not be as willing to pay for protection than low level players.
This would add another interesting twist to the only PK zone in Icesus.

[felgand]

A change like this would make Graemor a safer place instead of encouraging more dynamic pk. Players would decide not to attack each other for fear that the guards would jump in along with the player they were attempting to kill. I don't think Graemor needs to be a safer place...as pks in the town are already quite limited. However, it wouldn't be too big of a deal to remove the reputation check on the thieves in Graemor to be consistant with this.

[artic]

Felgand, you yourself sayd that PK is pointless, because its aparently way too easy. This would make it more complicated.

Also it would make the city more habitable- You know, kind of tired of running through the city avoiding any little stop, just in case. Also would make city siege as hard as attacking vaerlon.

Also i think that with all cities it would make sense that PK'ing a player that has high rep would mean bad rep in that community. Like People should get pissed it i kill a honored templar or a valued air-priest.

[felgand]

PK does tend to be an exercise with little challenge on Icesus due to combat mechanics, however, your suggestion does not create a more dynamic environment for PK or a more interesting scenerio. Basically, your change would allow a player more safe rooms (or semi-safe in this case) than before...there's no strategy in that. It's just run and run till you find a guard.

Running through the city avoiding any little stop is part of the essence of pk, you play the predator as much as you play the prey. That much is a good thing. Attacking Vaerlon tends to be a very simple task, you either kill 1 guard and waltz in or just avoid the guard altogether and climb up from the sewers...it's only player defenders that make this more of a challenge and that increases the interactivity between the playerbase which is also a good thing.

[solar]

Felgand is right. So far, you shadowdancers have whined about the lack of players to pkill. What you now suggest would even 'worsen' the situation for you - At the best it won't really improve anything.

Should this thing be implemented, it would result even more whine than before, well... perhaps _you_ won't be complaining aloud because this is/was _your idea_, but you would still find less targets out there.

So there, more logic into this matter.

[iluth]

maybe this angle hasn't been looked at, it would really only benefit the shadowdancers if this idea was implemented, i mean a shadowdancer pk is over in a couple of seconds right? insta-death, so there would be nothing for a guard to break up. an attacked shadowdancer however would get protected.

[artic]

1) there are 0 targets, so it can't go down from there. Only up. 'Illusion of safety'- 'Im safe, as long as you wont take the risk.'
2) It would improve situation for lower-level players. Currently they can not PK, but are easy to be PK'd. Why? Because although they have a good attack, they need the target to stand still for 1-3 minutes to use it, and the higher level players can VERY easily just melee them to death, without even recieving a scratch.
3) You can come into my home and kill me, but i can't come into your home and do the same. And, yes, I know your argument for this one- 'If you don't like graemor, move away!'. I generally think thats not the answer.

and 4) Don't bother replying to this post, or posting any new idea threads, unless you are seriously bored and sticking peas up your nose is not entertaining you any more. Theres not one idea post in this forum that has had a positive result, or that has not been trampled down by some that just don't think anything should ever change or be ever created.

[dyzmal]

Also would make city siege as hard as attacking vaerlon.

"Boo hoo Vaerlon is so hard to attack." *COUGH*Sewers*COUGH* *COUGH*MoveSilently*COUGH*. So sick of hearing shadowdancers complain about that, sorry.

To pay for protection you _have_ to be a citicen of graemor.

Name one newbie that is a citiZen of Graemor? You said this is for newbies right? Well the only reasons I can think of to choose Graemor for a hometown is if you are joining either Earth Priests or Shadowdancers, and by the time you can join these, you aren't really a newbie.

If a player that has payed for protection is killed the killer(s) get bad rep in graemor: just like when you kill them thieves. [...] This would add another interesting twist to the only PK zone in Icesus.

This wouldn't be an "interesting twist", it would make it so that people were less-likely to PK people, which would ruin the fun anxiety and fear people feel when visiting Graemor. It would RUIN Graemor.

there are 0 targets, so it can't go down from there. Only up. 'Illusion of safety'- 'Im safe, as long as you wont take the risk.'

More like, "Yay I just joined the shadowdancers, and now that I paid off the guards, if I fail a backstab and some highbie kills me, he/she will still be screwed over because they'll get bad rep. A win/win situation! I love being a lamer!" But that's just my opinion.

You can come into my home and kill me, but i can't come into your home and do the same.

Because your home is Graemor, in which PKing is allowed. Sucks to be you. Don't like it? Move. You might not think that's the answer, but unfortunately your WRONG.

Also i think that with all cities it would make sense that PK'ing a player that has high rep would mean bad rep in that community. Like People should get pissed it i kill a honored templar or a valued air-priest.

*This* is an interesting idea. It shouldn't be a service that is paid for though, and would probably be hard to implement. Also PKing players from guilds that are hated by certain towns, etc., should give good rep to those towns.

[artic]

"Boo hoo Vaerlon is so hard to attack." *COUGH*Sewers*COUGH* *COUGH*MoveSilently*COUGH*. So sick of hearing shadowdancers complain about that, sorry.

Siege'ing Vaerlon is not made hard because you cant get into the city! (You don't have to give away secrets!) Everyone knows theres like 5 different routes you can take into the city, 3 of witch are unguarded. The difficult part is getting players to react to your agression and avoiding the bad rep, aggro guards and dealing with the constant remove weapons/wield them again. In graemor you just gome in, kill the shadowdancers (NPC and PC, it dont matter), no bad rep, no aggro gouards, no fear or the shadwodancers revenge cause you can just step outside of the city and go : 'Neer-Neer- Neer, I killed you, but you cant touch me!'. MC Hammer: 'Da-Da-Da-Da, Can't touch this!'

Name one newbie that is a citiZen of Graemor? You said this is for newbies right? Well the only reasons I can think of to choose Graemor for a hometown is if you are joining either Earth Priests or Shadowdancers, and by the time you can join these, you aren't really a newbie.
.

To become a citizen of graemor you need 1Mil total exp. Most greamorians have 20Mil+. So if you start as a 1mil shadowdancer or earth_priest, you are a newbie in the land of agressive Highbies. You need protection.

More like, "Yay I just joined the shadowdancers, and now that I paid off the guards, if I fail a backstab and some highbie kills me, he/she will still be screwed over because they'll get bad rep. A win/win situation! I love being a lamer!" But that's just my opinion.

I see your point here. A win/win situation is not good, indeed.

Because your home is Graemor, in which PKing is allowed. Sucks to be you. Don't like it? Move. You might not think that's the answer, but unfortunately your WRONG.

Heh, I told you i knew the answer to this one! And I also sayd giving up is not an answer. Its like saying : 'Any idea post out there, thats complaining about one or the other thing being wierd/broken/too weak- reainc, move or stop doing that thing! Monks want more runes? NO! Reainc to mages them have many_many nifty spells! Mages not good enough to solo? Way bad! Reinc to Templar! I hear they get 0 whines.' etc.

Also i think that with all cities it would make sense that PK'ing a player that has high rep would mean bad rep in that community. Like People should get pissed it i kill a honored templar or a valued air-priest.

*This* is an interesting idea. It shouldn't be a service that is paid for though, and would probably be hard to implement. Also PKing players from guilds that are hated by certain towns, etc., should give good rep to those towns.

I never sayd that this would need to be a paid service. I was more like thinking graemorians pay for protection and bad rep for the PK'ers and Vaerlonians need good rep (in Vaerlon) if they want the PK'er to get bad rep.

P.S- I can take bad critic, I just fail to see, why some feel the need to trample down _every_ idea ever posted (especially if it has a slight negative effect on their char- or way of life in general). I can understand if theres something obvoiusly wrong with an idea (like creating a loophole or a abuse-a win/win situation- etc) that people who figure it out, say they did. Not like:' This is a bad idea! It wouldn't benefit me!'

P.P.S-

maybe this angle hasn't been looked at, it would really only benefit the shadowdancers if this idea was implemented, i mean a shadowdancer pk is over in a couple of seconds right? insta-death, so there would be nothing for a guard to break up. an attacked shadowdancer however would get protected.

After the Ferry was removed there are only ~4 shadowdancers that _can_ PK. Cause they high enough pure melee (including shadow strike) damage. The 'backstab' skill, that you refer to as 'instan-death' can no longer be used for _lawful_ PK. And it is not 'insta-death' (although it tends to be 'eq-damage')- ask felgand: triple stab costed him 2% HP. <This is not a good example, cause felgand is 3x my level- so don't post this argument. Why I used this example is because he seems to be the only Vaerlonian not afraind to step into graemor.>

Wow. this is a long post. Sorry. Take your time and read it all. Don't fire back unless you have read it _all_!