In this mud, it seems to be a trend that when someone/something suddenly does good df/money/exp with something, it is tuned to shit. And before tuned to shit a handful of players who used it have gotten rich/loads of exp by those means. It is offcourse easier to downtune things than to just uptune others. ( a good example for this i old outworld and skeleton circlets )
For example, instanly when something becomes easy and something good can be done without breaking a sweat, it must be downtuned. For me it looks like that when you reach 200m totals you must do like max of 10k personal rate untill the end of days. Or be tuned to hell by random whines. If some guild somehow manages to do 2-3k better rate than others it seems to require tuning by some players, and they whine about it constantly on public channels.
And yes, i do rape all those monsters which give df items, i prolly kill them each 10 times a day and put the items to rot in my chest for future use.
Merchant's council/ruling body
Moderator: Moderators
Is this really a bad thing(tm)? I wouldn't enjoy playing a game where there is one or two kick-ass guild/character combinations above all others.yoz wrote:In this mud, it seems to be a trend that when someone/something suddenly does good df/money/exp with something, it is tuned to shit. And before tuned to shit a handful of players who used it have gotten rich/loads of exp by those means. It is offcourse easier to downtune things than to just uptune others. ( a good example for this i old outworld and skeleton circlets )
Stalker
This whine of mine was mostly pointed to the players who instantly go whining if class happens to be able to make few k's better rate than others. For example few players who constantly keep whining about shapeshifters and sorcerers see the thing bit too simplemindedly. First of all, i think it is a good thing that shapeshifters/monks can do a bit better exp as an off than others because they certainly are not able to do any eq, sorcerers are able to do minor eq yes, but i would never take a sorcerer to make some bigger monsters, unless it really takes physdam well.stalker wrote:Is this really a bad thing(tm)? I wouldn't enjoy playing a game where there is one or two kick-ass guild/character combinations above all others.yoz wrote:In this mud, it seems to be a trend that when someone/something suddenly does good df/money/exp with something, it is tuned to shit. And before tuned to shit a handful of players who used it have gotten rich/loads of exp by those means. It is offcourse easier to downtune things than to just uptune others. ( a good example for this i old outworld and skeleton circlets )
One of my points allso was that: instead of downtuning sorcs/templars/gaesati, maybe it would just be easier to uptune rangers/militias just a tad, so they would reach the same level.
Ill put these all into one nutshell:
Instead of downtuning the best things, maybe uptuning the worse things would do the trick better.
(this post went totally offtopic)
About the skelecirclet tune:
The df gain from those was not so damn uber, it just felt like it because it was the best source of df after we lost teladan, df is still being sold alot on sales, so no tune needed here. (Teladan=best df/exp area ever in the history of icesus)
monsters and eq they drop
The problem with dagger of justice and ratling eq, in my opinion, is that the monsters drop one very good item, and lots of lesser items.
Everyone needs a dazhora ring, since it's almost the best one can get. and everyone needs 2 of those. that produces excess masses of daggers of justice and all the other eq drops.
again the same thing with ratling, one good, top end bracer that every tank needs, and lots of lesser eq like veils and diamond daggers. for a set of bracers, you get 2 veils 2 diamond daggers. no wonder if the prices drop.
it shouldn't be that you get one best-in-the-game eq from a monster, and the rest is sheer garbage with no use to anyone who can kill the monster.
solael boots? people keep killing solael for those best-version staves, and 1 out of 8 solaels drops one of these.
------> we get 8 pairs of boots and 7 staves that are sold for minimal prices, since these items have no shop or df value.
So in the conclusion, there's no point in having eq monsters drop eq that is best in the game, if everyone can take the monster down. it will get killed a lot, and all the excess eq is sold to newbies and the prices keep dropping.
Everyone needs a dazhora ring, since it's almost the best one can get. and everyone needs 2 of those. that produces excess masses of daggers of justice and all the other eq drops.
again the same thing with ratling, one good, top end bracer that every tank needs, and lots of lesser eq like veils and diamond daggers. for a set of bracers, you get 2 veils 2 diamond daggers. no wonder if the prices drop.
it shouldn't be that you get one best-in-the-game eq from a monster, and the rest is sheer garbage with no use to anyone who can kill the monster.
solael boots? people keep killing solael for those best-version staves, and 1 out of 8 solaels drops one of these.
------> we get 8 pairs of boots and 7 staves that are sold for minimal prices, since these items have no shop or df value.
So in the conclusion, there's no point in having eq monsters drop eq that is best in the game, if everyone can take the monster down. it will get killed a lot, and all the excess eq is sold to newbies and the prices keep dropping.
-
artic
- Supporting Member 2005
- Posts: 475
- Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 15:54 pm
- Location: Tallinn, Estonia
What Tecari is saying that the price of good eq has gone down because a lot of players have reached high enough level to kill the monsters. Surely having the best staff in the game might have been a rare thing a year of two back, but now even newbies can afford it, because the number of highbies has grown. What has not grown is the itembase. Same item is considered the best, that was adored by everyone a year ago. New even better and even harder to get eq would sound nice. Yes, this would bring the price of the now-best items, but it would create a new market with sky-high prices for those new-bests.
Anyway, theres many solutions to the market problems.
I personally would prefer a eq wipe and eq-system recode, more than giving highbies right to tax all good eq ever sold.
Heres whats i think is wrong with the eq. Quality eq costs more than magic, infact magic is soo common, theres no magic about it. Everyone looks like a chrismas tree- all decorated in green, red and cyan glow. Wouldnt it be more nice, if magic was soo rare, that it would be really valued. But icesus is icesus. And i have come to exept the all-so-glowy newbies and hundred millions bid in sales channels.
Anyway, theres many solutions to the market problems.
I personally would prefer a eq wipe and eq-system recode, more than giving highbies right to tax all good eq ever sold.
Heres whats i think is wrong with the eq. Quality eq costs more than magic, infact magic is soo common, theres no magic about it. Everyone looks like a chrismas tree- all decorated in green, red and cyan glow. Wouldnt it be more nice, if magic was soo rare, that it would be really valued. But icesus is icesus. And i have come to exept the all-so-glowy newbies and hundred millions bid in sales channels.
Tecari has a good point. Some people are willing to kill the same monster countless times to get the 'best version' available. Nothing wrong with those players, but the economy floods with the less decent versions. Take the Barrimundo greatsword for example.
And making top-notch eq drain df is a silly idea. Would hurt the player category known as the 'SHEEPS' a lot more than those willing to lead exp parties. It has already taken a lot of effort to make the item after all. Keep the playing of the game still fun - instead of making it pain in the ass.
And quite frankly, I have never understood the fuss about hunting. I've been here long enough to see three or four hunting tunes and I never found it good enough to use, but then again I'm a bad and naughty min-maxer. I don't honestly believe there would be lots of people hunting in the outworld if things would be changed. A lot more stable 'exp income' can be found in areas, provided that the player does not suffer from an complete and utter lack of brains.
As for the df outworld monsters..you could pull 30-50k df in one mudnight without a mount at best. But instead of changing the eq to crap, wouldn't it have been better to uptune those monsters ?
And hell yeah, let's have an eqwipe and put everyone on the same start line, since obviously it's so wrong that certain players have spend hundreds and hundreds of hours making the top-notch eq. Hooray for such brilliant ideas. Nothing wrong with the amount of magical items in the game. What next, remove the guilds that use magic ?
And making top-notch eq drain df is a silly idea. Would hurt the player category known as the 'SHEEPS' a lot more than those willing to lead exp parties. It has already taken a lot of effort to make the item after all. Keep the playing of the game still fun - instead of making it pain in the ass.
And quite frankly, I have never understood the fuss about hunting. I've been here long enough to see three or four hunting tunes and I never found it good enough to use, but then again I'm a bad and naughty min-maxer. I don't honestly believe there would be lots of people hunting in the outworld if things would be changed. A lot more stable 'exp income' can be found in areas, provided that the player does not suffer from an complete and utter lack of brains.
As for the df outworld monsters..you could pull 30-50k df in one mudnight without a mount at best. But instead of changing the eq to crap, wouldn't it have been better to uptune those monsters ?
And hell yeah, let's have an eqwipe and put everyone on the same start line, since obviously it's so wrong that certain players have spend hundreds and hundreds of hours making the top-notch eq. Hooray for such brilliant ideas. Nothing wrong with the amount of magical items in the game. What next, remove the guilds that use magic ?
You see us comin'
And you all together run for cover
We're taking over this town
And you all together run for cover
We're taking over this town
Well, those tunes you are talking about were downtunes. When I started playing the mud, almost everyone ended up hunting, either alone or asked to hunt in a party. It was great fun and a terrific diversion from area sickness. And there were some great ranger hunters then too... Tavs.. Artem? I forgot his name, but he used to hunt with bows.. (Not the ranger hunting of today, grab a wyvern and scour 100x100 grid.)And quite frankly, I have never understood the fuss about hunting. I've been here long enough to see three or four hunting tunes and I never found it good enough to use, but then again I'm a bad and naughty min-maxer. I don't honestly believe there would be lots of people hunting in the outworld if things would be changed.
It was a different aspect of the game and it worked out well if you got bored or couldn't find a party.
-
artic
- Supporting Member 2005
- Posts: 475
- Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 15:54 pm
- Location: Tallinn, Estonia
The power of highbies:
There is a certain amount of players that can do a high-end eq-run. If these (or most of them anyway) players are in the merchants guild council party, they can agree on a price, that all merchants must use to sell that eq. Now if a new group of payers reaches the skill/level to do that same eq-run, it means that the eq will be that much less rare. In logic that should mean that the price comes down. With the council it does not. The price is kept at a fake level, only to bring more profit to the highbies and drain more money form the newbies.
We have a 'free' market. The ore people learn how to do that eq run, the lower the price will be. I see no reason why we should any measures to control the price of things. Any tune you make, will be unfair to the people that have not yet reached the level required to gain from the flaw (and if you tune it/fix it you are agreeing to it being a flaw). Seems like a abuse- but because its a general thing, no-one can be bunished, only the people that didnt abuse it yet.
So instead of whining about the price of potatos going down because everyone started to grow them, be smart and start growing carrots.
--------------------------
Hope this makes sense.
There is a certain amount of players that can do a high-end eq-run. If these (or most of them anyway) players are in the merchants guild council party, they can agree on a price, that all merchants must use to sell that eq. Now if a new group of payers reaches the skill/level to do that same eq-run, it means that the eq will be that much less rare. In logic that should mean that the price comes down. With the council it does not. The price is kept at a fake level, only to bring more profit to the highbies and drain more money form the newbies.
We have a 'free' market. The ore people learn how to do that eq run, the lower the price will be. I see no reason why we should any measures to control the price of things. Any tune you make, will be unfair to the people that have not yet reached the level required to gain from the flaw (and if you tune it/fix it you are agreeing to it being a flaw). Seems like a abuse- but because its a general thing, no-one can be bunished, only the people that didnt abuse it yet.
So instead of whining about the price of potatos going down because everyone started to grow them, be smart and start growing carrots.
--------------------------
Hope this makes sense.
The game evolves, that's a fact. Old eq-monsters are removed (Neralath, sniff), whereas new ones will appear (Frost Beast, Ariaxum to name a few) that might not yet be in the "perfect tune". Surprise, there's not a magic wand you can just zap and have the monster be ideal for the equipment it has. Therefore, it might have been more difficult or easier to do before than it is nowadays. Why should the people that didn't even play the game three or four years ago be on the same level as the people who did eq back then ? There were far less capable players back then, and in general the players held less power. And as far as "abuse" goes, I'm fairly sure 99,9% of the people doing eq would give the items back if the monster died in 1/10 of the normal time it takes to bring it down. (Bishop for example.)
You are making the assumption that the same group of players will keep on doing the eq time after time after time. And when new players reach the same level, they too will be doing the eq. In truth, the case is not this. Let's assume that the eq-party has 9 members, which is often needed for the big monsters. That's 9 people and as time goes by, it becomes increasingly more difficult to find a common timeground when all of them can be logged on.
The last eq-group I was part of lasted for about three months.
In game time, it took three hundreds hours of playing at least, and that's not counting the df-making. Now I ended up with four good items. I don't know about others, but I'm fairly sure that not that many people are as masochistic and are willing to sacrifice this much of time into the game.
But still, I have to agree partly with this one, having an playerrun group that keeps the prices at an 'fixed' level is not a wise change.
Anyway, this topic has gotten a bit out of hands
You are making the assumption that the same group of players will keep on doing the eq time after time after time. And when new players reach the same level, they too will be doing the eq. In truth, the case is not this. Let's assume that the eq-party has 9 members, which is often needed for the big monsters. That's 9 people and as time goes by, it becomes increasingly more difficult to find a common timeground when all of them can be logged on.
The last eq-group I was part of lasted for about three months.
In game time, it took three hundreds hours of playing at least, and that's not counting the df-making. Now I ended up with four good items. I don't know about others, but I'm fairly sure that not that many people are as masochistic and are willing to sacrifice this much of time into the game.
But still, I have to agree partly with this one, having an playerrun group that keeps the prices at an 'fixed' level is not a wise change.
Anyway, this topic has gotten a bit out of hands
You see us comin'
And you all together run for cover
We're taking over this town
And you all together run for cover
We're taking over this town
-
artic
- Supporting Member 2005
- Posts: 475
- Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 15:54 pm
- Location: Tallinn, Estonia
I might have misused the word 'abuse'. Sorry about that. What i ment to say is that if until today a eq monster was of OK power, and making that piece of eq was considered in-tunely-hard, it should not be made any harder for the future eq-parties. (Long sentence, hole it still bears the point).
And yes, not 100% of people who could grow potatos, actually do grow popatos. Yet unarguably the number of players that do, has risen in the past year or so. Thus the price of potatos has gone down. If you want to keep the price of an item at a 'fake' high, buy em all up. Thats hard, if not impossible, to do. Yet, punishing everyone that sells an item for cheaper than you is not an option, in my opinion.
And yes, not 100% of people who could grow potatos, actually do grow popatos. Yet unarguably the number of players that do, has risen in the past year or so. Thus the price of potatos has gone down. If you want to keep the price of an item at a 'fake' high, buy em all up. Thats hard, if not impossible, to do. Yet, punishing everyone that sells an item for cheaper than you is not an option, in my opinion.
Good ideas of controlling good eq have been introduced here, let me put few more:
* Increasing the amounts of unique eq (ie. one at the time).
I would recommend this to several items. Few examples: Blade of disaster (common to see in sales), The fang of the beast (It is THE fang of the beast - not some random), Krepis maul, shadowy shield.... and so many more that i don't have patiense to write them.
* Setting specially defined quantaties that most common eq have
In my opinion, this is the best way. By adjusting definite quantaties of certain eq, they will never be common. Raptor stuff, avian blades.... ym.
* Lowering equipment statistics and making mobs tougher
This is THE MOST worst idea, one very good example is Kruric...
* Make more eq quests once-per player/once-per player and etc.
As mentioned by many before me, there are (too) many eq that have become enermously numerous (thus very chiep). One particular comes in mind - the wyvern claw quest. By altering that the quantaties of wyverns (in my humble opinion), players don't need to see wyvern claws in the ground AND SPECIALLY NOT truck loads of earrings sold in almost shop price...
* Increasing the amounts of unique eq (ie. one at the time).
I would recommend this to several items. Few examples: Blade of disaster (common to see in sales), The fang of the beast (It is THE fang of the beast - not some random), Krepis maul, shadowy shield.... and so many more that i don't have patiense to write them.
* Setting specially defined quantaties that most common eq have
In my opinion, this is the best way. By adjusting definite quantaties of certain eq, they will never be common. Raptor stuff, avian blades.... ym.
* Lowering equipment statistics and making mobs tougher
This is THE MOST worst idea, one very good example is Kruric...
* Make more eq quests once-per player/once-per player and etc.
As mentioned by many before me, there are (too) many eq that have become enermously numerous (thus very chiep). One particular comes in mind - the wyvern claw quest. By altering that the quantaties of wyverns (in my humble opinion), players don't need to see wyvern claws in the ground AND SPECIALLY NOT truck loads of earrings sold in almost shop price...
-
solar
- Supporting Member 2020
- Posts: 541
- Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 17:30 pm
- Location: Kalajoki/Oulu, Finland
Making items 'unique' is the worst possibly option. Once people get a unique item, they WILL probably keep it for themselves, since having unique items is +dicksize. Also, since that item is unique, it will add some 30m to its value on markets and NO ONE will pay 30m for the fang of the beast except if he/she collects unique stuff.
This won't solve anything, because unique eq is unique - there's only one at any time. Anyone with 30m of money won't need the item for its stats any longer.
In fact, this will make the matters worse. Sure, it would make things rarer and raise their value, but this is not the way to do it. When an item becomes unique, I think all the other copies of it VANISH. There would be no fair way to decide who gets the unique piece of the eq, and the fastest fingers in the mud will be the one who gets it (woundedmonster policy).You'll end up with a lynch mob chanting the name of the one who suggested such a tune...
This won't solve anything, because unique eq is unique - there's only one at any time. Anyone with 30m of money won't need the item for its stats any longer.
In fact, this will make the matters worse. Sure, it would make things rarer and raise their value, but this is not the way to do it. When an item becomes unique, I think all the other copies of it VANISH. There would be no fair way to decide who gets the unique piece of the eq, and the fastest fingers in the mud will be the one who gets it (woundedmonster policy).You'll end up with a lynch mob chanting the name of the one who suggested such a tune...
Internet tough guy
Icesus is not just my life - it's the lack of it.
Icesus is not just my life - it's the lack of it.
...rotax wrote:Maybe other players can be allowed to pk someone with a unqiue item, so that having that item becomes very dangerous, and will drop if you die.
I think a little less peace on Icesus might make the game more exciting :p
No.
Why would you make a bunch of crappy items unique?
Again, no.