We need some sort of ruling council/body to the Merchant's guild.
10 of the most richest merchants who have taken full merchant levels could vote things to happen in their meetings (as long as they remain unanimous in their opinion).
They could possibly BAN some player from the sales-channel for a short period of time, something less than a week but at least a day.
Or CONFISCATE someone's merchant booth. (not touching the items within, of course, but make it 'out of order' (no buying possible from it while it lasts)). The Merchant's council could lift their disfavour, too...
Also, they should have their own Merchant-channel to make decisions... like name the lowest prices to some eqs people should not sell under...
THIS WILL BE GREAT, possibly even HELPING WITH THE INFLATED STATUS OF ICESUS.
Merchant's council/ruling body
Moderator: Moderators
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solar
- Supporting Member 2020
- Posts: 541
- Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 17:30 pm
- Location: Kalajoki/Oulu, Finland
Merchant's council/ruling body
Internet tough guy
Icesus is not just my life - it's the lack of it.
Icesus is not just my life - it's the lack of it.
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solar
- Supporting Member 2020
- Posts: 541
- Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 17:30 pm
- Location: Kalajoki/Oulu, Finland
Indeed! The price of justice daggers and ratling bracers (just to name but a very-very-tiny-super-little-tiniest-of-fractions of the inflated stuff) has dropped down to laughable levels!
We clearly need to establish even some sort of restraint or the economy will be destroyed!
WIZARDS have some RADICAL METHODS at their disposal and no one wants a FULL EQPURGE, now do they?! If the problem won't be fixed by players, the problem WILL be fixed with NO REGARD TO PLAYERS' rare/ungettable/hard-to-get equipment!
Trust me, the economic structure will collapse unless something is done. And fast. This might seem just a little thing, but at least it's a start!
We clearly need to establish even some sort of restraint or the economy will be destroyed!
WIZARDS have some RADICAL METHODS at their disposal and no one wants a FULL EQPURGE, now do they?! If the problem won't be fixed by players, the problem WILL be fixed with NO REGARD TO PLAYERS' rare/ungettable/hard-to-get equipment!
Trust me, the economic structure will collapse unless something is done. And fast. This might seem just a little thing, but at least it's a start!
Internet tough guy
Icesus is not just my life - it's the lack of it.
Icesus is not just my life - it's the lack of it.
The wizards have done something about it.....they set the shop and df values for all pieces of eq which are the 'base' values for all saleable / purchasable items. Any amount you can get over the shop value is just gravy on your potatoes. I very much doubt the powers that be see a problem with the economy or adjusting these values is where it can be quickly and easily remedied.
The quality and values of outworld undead treasure items were greatly reduced and mining was eradicated without an immediate replacement so 'ready' money isn't as available as it was in the past.
The quality and values of outworld undead treasure items were greatly reduced and mining was eradicated without an immediate replacement so 'ready' money isn't as available as it was in the past.
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solar
- Supporting Member 2020
- Posts: 541
- Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 17:30 pm
- Location: Kalajoki/Oulu, Finland
Keep the good stuff coming!
I hope that the problem will be remedied, I don't personally want a full eqpurge, but I prefer that choice over the inflated prices - If I'd have to choose between those two. Oh, and I'm quite sure that those 'base prices' you mentioned are like 6 years old... a little outdated, no?vinicius wrote:The wizards have done something about it.....they set the shop and df values for all pieces of eq which are the 'base' values for all saleable / purchasable items. Any amount you can get over the shop value is just gravy on your potatoes. I very much doubt the powers that be see a problem with the economy or adjusting these values is where it can be quickly and easily remedied.
This is a problem: DF items are less scarce than what they were before, yet people keep on selling them for the same inflatedly-low prices! Since there is more of a shortage of them, the prices should be higher! People are willing to pay more, it's just the sellers that can't see that they have the power to raise their prices!vinicius wrote: The quality and values of outworld undead treasure items were greatly reduced and mining was eradicated without an immediate replacement so 'ready' money isn't as available as it was in the past.
And sorry to all those poor people out there for stepping on their tiny toes and thin wallets, but this is how I view things. I don't care how hard it is for you to get money, the prices are *LOW* and that's a sad fact.
Internet tough guy
Icesus is not just my life - it's the lack of it.
Icesus is not just my life - it's the lack of it.
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harlonus
- Supporting Member 2014
- Posts: 45
- Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 22:15 pm
- Location: Kalajoki, Finland
It is a really sad fact that prices are *LOW*, and because prices are low newbies can buy goodie good eqs for a low price.. When i had about 20m totals avian blade costed like 75-100k and it was, after all a good weapon. Today i look a player below lvl 30 and what do i see? ocean blue falchions and dragon eq's etc. i have to admit i ENVY todays newbies.
And other fact: there is no reason to make anykind of eq(except ashul and CD and other hard-to-kill mobs) because (almost) every player already has those and no-one wants to buy those because of low prices
And other fact: there is no reason to make anykind of eq(except ashul and CD and other hard-to-kill mobs) because (almost) every player already has those and no-one wants to buy those because of low prices
Free markets are a robust tool for creating efficient economies, but they soundly ignore anyone's idea of what an item should cost except for the seller and the buyer, both of which agree or they would not sell. When a market is not behaving as someone thinks it should it is the first human instinct to scrap the free market and replace it with a centrally planned economy. Central planning can work, but it is a lot of effort, is easily perverted for the gain of the planners, and provides a nice focal point for people unhappy with the economy. (Its no longer 'the market', its 'those guys screwing things up')
But is there really a problem?
Lets look at daggers of justice. I don't think I was around when those were introduced, I was certainly too low level and peaceful to be interested in one, but I'm sure the first few were expensive. Fast forward to now when a couple dozen players know how to get one with a party of top 150 plaque players and they are no longer rare, they are there for the taking. But its even worst than that...I just counted 5 shadowdancers on the system that might like to have a dagger of justice. I also counted 15 players that could reasonably have a pair of the related ring. Those 15 players are all in the level range that they can go run for the rings and generate 30 daggers of justice in the process.
There just isn't enough demand to soak up all those daggers, people are going to have to sac them to free up locker space.
The only way to prop up the price of an item is increase demand or decrease supply. Lets look at some options for the dagger...
That said, I would not make such a list. Its a different valley from when you were a newbie. Some EQ is radically cheaper, the monsters are tuned differently, there are new areas, old areas are gone, sorcerers kill you for walking into the wrong room at the wrong time... times have changed. We can sit on our porches in a rocking chair and say "Why when I was young..." all we want, and its true... when we were young it was that way. It just isn't now.
But is there really a problem?
Lets look at daggers of justice. I don't think I was around when those were introduced, I was certainly too low level and peaceful to be interested in one, but I'm sure the first few were expensive. Fast forward to now when a couple dozen players know how to get one with a party of top 150 plaque players and they are no longer rare, they are there for the taking. But its even worst than that...I just counted 5 shadowdancers on the system that might like to have a dagger of justice. I also counted 15 players that could reasonably have a pair of the related ring. Those 15 players are all in the level range that they can go run for the rings and generate 30 daggers of justice in the process.
There just isn't enough demand to soak up all those daggers, people are going to have to sac them to free up locker space.
The only way to prop up the price of an item is increase demand or decrease supply. Lets look at some options for the dagger...
- raise the shop price to increase demand: this is a horrible solution, we will be buried in cash.
raise the sac value to increase demand: that would be something like 100kDF to support a 1m silver price. That's a lot of DF
make shadowdancers more than twice as popular as mages and sorcerers combined to increase demand: a frightening proposition, but just makes the problem move to the ring.
make them break to decrease supply: players don't generally like this.
make them wear out to decrease supply: a little nicer than breaking since the player can plan for his weapon's demise.
- dagger of justice
raptor plate
leather ring (caster one)
staff of solael
2wis earrings
2str5fire earrings
violet bracer
That said, I would not make such a list. Its a different valley from when you were a newbie. Some EQ is radically cheaper, the monsters are tuned differently, there are new areas, old areas are gone, sorcerers kill you for walking into the wrong room at the wrong time... times have changed. We can sit on our porches in a rocking chair and say "Why when I was young..." all we want, and its true... when we were young it was that way. It just isn't now.
My thoughts on the subject, bear with me, I'm a bit tired at the moment.
The abundance of low/mid level equipment is a common problem in just about every mud. There is no single fast solution for it. Eqpurge would be an totally stupid solution for this and should not even be brought in this conversation. Let's take a look at the items the market seems to be full now:
- Good quality weapons, such as the ocean blue falchion
can be seen often on the sales. Point is, the player who
participated in making the weapon has most likely no use
for the lower quality weapon. It's not the "best" version
of the weapon, and hence it only provides an easy income
of money for the player when he sells it to an lower level
person. To name a few; Ocean blue falchion, most versions
of Barrimundo Blade and the infamous titanium greatsword
from Gilmore. If the version is crappy, then they are most
likely to sell it on the sales for easy money.
- Easy to get items that are worth using. Such as the ratling
bracer, items from Rodok Mor (breastplate,rapier) etc.
In the end, the prices seem to have went down on certain items. And just about 90% of these items are from monsters that can be farmed once every boot. (Vivian, Rodok Mor, Gokuzerz, Barrimundo, Citadel guard captain and the commander, Maw, Solael, Ratling, etc.)
Should they also have an "cooldown" period? I hope not.
Wear'n'tear is an solution that was made in several other muds.
Should it be done here? I don't know. Do notice, that there
seems to be an abundance of the items that can be gotten
from "midbie" monsters, or from those that can be farmed daily.
I for one would be seriously pissed if the highend items I've bled
for and wasted countless hours in making would decay at the
same speed as the easier to get items. I don't see a fast
solution for this.
Aah hell, enough of my ramblings.
The abundance of low/mid level equipment is a common problem in just about every mud. There is no single fast solution for it. Eqpurge would be an totally stupid solution for this and should not even be brought in this conversation. Let's take a look at the items the market seems to be full now:
- Good quality weapons, such as the ocean blue falchion
can be seen often on the sales. Point is, the player who
participated in making the weapon has most likely no use
for the lower quality weapon. It's not the "best" version
of the weapon, and hence it only provides an easy income
of money for the player when he sells it to an lower level
person. To name a few; Ocean blue falchion, most versions
of Barrimundo Blade and the infamous titanium greatsword
from Gilmore. If the version is crappy, then they are most
likely to sell it on the sales for easy money.
- Easy to get items that are worth using. Such as the ratling
bracer, items from Rodok Mor (breastplate,rapier) etc.
In the end, the prices seem to have went down on certain items. And just about 90% of these items are from monsters that can be farmed once every boot. (Vivian, Rodok Mor, Gokuzerz, Barrimundo, Citadel guard captain and the commander, Maw, Solael, Ratling, etc.)
Should they also have an "cooldown" period? I hope not.
Wear'n'tear is an solution that was made in several other muds.
Should it be done here? I don't know. Do notice, that there
seems to be an abundance of the items that can be gotten
from "midbie" monsters, or from those that can be farmed daily.
I for one would be seriously pissed if the highend items I've bled
for and wasted countless hours in making would decay at the
same speed as the easier to get items. I don't see a fast
solution for this.
Aah hell, enough of my ramblings.
Last edited by zohlor on Sun Apr 10, 2005 01:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
You see us comin'
And you all together run for cover
We're taking over this town
And you all together run for cover
We're taking over this town
First of all, my sincere thankyous especially to the two previous posts for their non-zealous approach to a difficult subject.
As I see it, targetting the availability of the items described as being the most common to come into the markets without a meaningful purpose (e.g. selling immediately if it is not the ultimate version) would perhaps help in the long run without any unwanted effects. Other suggested solutions are more effective but also incur detrimental consequences.
Infact, I've already applied this remedy to a few overly abundant pieces of equipment. If I have the time, I'll look over the items as posted on this thread.
As I see it, targetting the availability of the items described as being the most common to come into the markets without a meaningful purpose (e.g. selling immediately if it is not the ultimate version) would perhaps help in the long run without any unwanted effects. Other suggested solutions are more effective but also incur detrimental consequences.
Infact, I've already applied this remedy to a few overly abundant pieces of equipment. If I have the time, I'll look over the items as posted on this thread.
Stalker
In my opnion, the structure of the mud in running cash/df has changed.
Outworld was tuned to make df crappy, which makes those circlets cash/df. This means that a lot of players have to look at other means of doing the above, just like hunting downtune provided overcrowded areas DF downtune provided an influx of good-weapons to buy which are now DF and people don't want to pay good-weapons price for them but the usual 1.2/df price.
This includes the avian blade. It was a 100k good-weapon, which is now a DF item.
Fang of the beast - no more hunters, this hunting weapon is worthless, again it's probably worth more DF so the 200k price it used to sell for is also gone.
Less people hunting = more eqs, newbie eqs that sell for DF prices and basically a saturated market that is focused primarily on selling DF.
Oh sure, people try to sell like they used to in the good old days, but they're not very successful.
Wear and tear is also not a good option - items get damaged in the process already, I would hate to make my ratling bracers more prone to that, just because they sell for a low price on sales.
The only other alternative is to implement level requirements on items, so we don't have a market fallout affect lowbies to this reported extent. This will also make levels more important/cash from buying eq less immediate.
I'm not usually a fan of level based eq but maybe we could set a soft and hard limit, of course this will send shockwaves througout every guild. I'm not sure it's wise.
The best solution however, is to BRING BACK HUNTING. This will free up areas from being overrun by highbies, whether anyone likes it or not a market can be flooded like that no matter what the solution being implemented is. No way to stop it but to offer them a suitable diversion.
Second and possibly more relevant to this topic, is to restore the DF value of outworld undead, this will also occupy the time of highbies everywhere and keep them out of midbie areas with eq that can be abused by lower level players at their throw away value, currently.
As well, there is also the problem with a player manned sales channel - without automated bids (minimum bid set by the game, which should clarify things a little bit as for the selling prices of items) a player WILL get tired of trying to sell the same thing every boot and eventually the price will get lowered to laughable margins just because no one is buying or everyone has one. Or everyone is broke.
I blame Stalker's apartments.
So to sum it up, A) implement cash/df/exp diversion by fixing outworld undead/fix hunting.
B) Implement automated sales channel with minimum bid on items that is fixed. This would not affect booths but maximize the advantage for having one.
Problem solved? Again, this would require that most of the "old game" be restored.
Outworld was tuned to make df crappy, which makes those circlets cash/df. This means that a lot of players have to look at other means of doing the above, just like hunting downtune provided overcrowded areas DF downtune provided an influx of good-weapons to buy which are now DF and people don't want to pay good-weapons price for them but the usual 1.2/df price.
This includes the avian blade. It was a 100k good-weapon, which is now a DF item.
Fang of the beast - no more hunters, this hunting weapon is worthless, again it's probably worth more DF so the 200k price it used to sell for is also gone.
Less people hunting = more eqs, newbie eqs that sell for DF prices and basically a saturated market that is focused primarily on selling DF.
Oh sure, people try to sell like they used to in the good old days, but they're not very successful.
Wear and tear is also not a good option - items get damaged in the process already, I would hate to make my ratling bracers more prone to that, just because they sell for a low price on sales.
The only other alternative is to implement level requirements on items, so we don't have a market fallout affect lowbies to this reported extent. This will also make levels more important/cash from buying eq less immediate.
I'm not usually a fan of level based eq but maybe we could set a soft and hard limit, of course this will send shockwaves througout every guild. I'm not sure it's wise.
The best solution however, is to BRING BACK HUNTING. This will free up areas from being overrun by highbies, whether anyone likes it or not a market can be flooded like that no matter what the solution being implemented is. No way to stop it but to offer them a suitable diversion.
Second and possibly more relevant to this topic, is to restore the DF value of outworld undead, this will also occupy the time of highbies everywhere and keep them out of midbie areas with eq that can be abused by lower level players at their throw away value, currently.
As well, there is also the problem with a player manned sales channel - without automated bids (minimum bid set by the game, which should clarify things a little bit as for the selling prices of items) a player WILL get tired of trying to sell the same thing every boot and eventually the price will get lowered to laughable margins just because no one is buying or everyone has one. Or everyone is broke.
I blame Stalker's apartments.
So to sum it up, A) implement cash/df/exp diversion by fixing outworld undead/fix hunting.
B) Implement automated sales channel with minimum bid on items that is fixed. This would not affect booths but maximize the advantage for having one.
Problem solved? Again, this would require that most of the "old game" be restored.
Hmm... Maybe this is a solution. It won't put the prices back up, but it will turn things into DF instead of putting fabulous gear in the hands of newbies for cheap prices.
Make wearing any more than a few plusses of gear cost DF. The first few pluses should be free so newbies don't have to worry about it and can bask in the giddy joy of that first glow. (I almost fainted when a party leader just gave me my first glow! A +1spr ring!)
Newbies won't be able to afford the DF load to go tramping around in all that great gear. Highbies will find an even worse market for selling gear and will have to resort to sacrificing, in part to offset their new DF load.
Set it so it is something like 1/3 the load of a blessing, so gear will still be the preferred way to get bonuses.
Make wearing any more than a few plusses of gear cost DF. The first few pluses should be free so newbies don't have to worry about it and can bask in the giddy joy of that first glow. (I almost fainted when a party leader just gave me my first glow! A +1spr ring!)
Newbies won't be able to afford the DF load to go tramping around in all that great gear. Highbies will find an even worse market for selling gear and will have to resort to sacrificing, in part to offset their new DF load.
Set it so it is something like 1/3 the load of a blessing, so gear will still be the preferred way to get bonuses.
Hmm this sounds like a feasible idea, at least in my small mind.. Definately up for further discussion..misrobo wrote:Hmm... Maybe this is a solution. It won't put the prices back up, but it will turn things into DF instead of putting fabulous gear in the hands of newbies for cheap prices.
Make wearing any more than a few plusses of gear cost DF. The first few pluses should be free so newbies don't have to worry about it and can bask in the giddy joy of that first glow. (I almost fainted when a party leader just gave me my first glow! A +1spr ring!)
Newbies won't be able to afford the DF load to go tramping around in all that great gear. Highbies will find an even worse market for selling gear and will have to resort to sacrificing, in part to offset their new DF load.
Set it so it is something like 1/3 the load of a blessing, so gear will still be the preferred way to get bonuses.
Stalker
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artic
- Supporting Member 2005
- Posts: 475
- Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 15:54 pm
- Location: Tallinn, Estonia
Heres my two - no make that 1 and a half- cents on the subject.
Everything is Soo EXPENSIVE in this mud.
Yes i have been blamed of it before: I dont know how to make money. But i myself think i play rather reasonably, and for the most of the time I have no money. Seeing things that dont seem that good at all being sold for millions and tens of millions, makes me sick to my stomack.
Anyway back to the original topic- merchant leagues leaders.
Yes this seems a good idea. However i would not use it for the purpouse as stated above- regulatin prices. I would use it to make everyone play fair. A Booth is not a permanent locker! Seeing someone sell a bag titles 'ari_priest' for 25 Million makes me wonder whats in it? Is it maybe just the players air priest set, that he does not want anyone to buy, so he coul use it in about 3 months when he deciedes to reinc back to air priest? So not only the low prices need regulating, also the high ones. There must be a top limit, at which selling an item in a booth is no longer selling, but keeping.
However determining where that limit is, is not a easy task. Thats why we need a coucil.
Everything is Soo EXPENSIVE in this mud.
Yes i have been blamed of it before: I dont know how to make money. But i myself think i play rather reasonably, and for the most of the time I have no money. Seeing things that dont seem that good at all being sold for millions and tens of millions, makes me sick to my stomack.
Anyway back to the original topic- merchant leagues leaders.
Yes this seems a good idea. However i would not use it for the purpouse as stated above- regulatin prices. I would use it to make everyone play fair. A Booth is not a permanent locker! Seeing someone sell a bag titles 'ari_priest' for 25 Million makes me wonder whats in it? Is it maybe just the players air priest set, that he does not want anyone to buy, so he coul use it in about 3 months when he deciedes to reinc back to air priest? So not only the low prices need regulating, also the high ones. There must be a top limit, at which selling an item in a booth is no longer selling, but keeping.
However determining where that limit is, is not a easy task. Thats why we need a coucil.
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asventral
- Supporting Member 2007
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 18:35 pm
- Location: Brussels, Belgium
Something i recently noticed is that 'ordered' stuff are often more expensive than 'glowies' ... if you try to get a fine steel full plate cuirass, you'd better try to afford some raptor breasplate + bracers .. they'll be far cheaper than the ordered cuirass.
Setting lower limit for prices could be a good solution, but ... there could be some 'standard' equipement a little bit less expensive.
Btw, i don't want those price to raise (i always have some prob to gather money), but i've to say that 2 years ago there weren't so many lowbies wearing high end stuff.
Setting lower limit for prices could be a good solution, but ... there could be some 'standard' equipement a little bit less expensive.
Btw, i don't want those price to raise (i always have some prob to gather money), but i've to say that 2 years ago there weren't so many lowbies wearing high end stuff.