Psionic Constructs

Share your ideas about the future of the game with other players and wizards.

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apex
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Post by apex »

khade wrote:how about a another subguild that more then one guild can join? the ones who aren't psionicists could bring in the ability to bring the thing to life, and the psionicists could bring in the ability to control them. i know that earth priests could defentely do it, and when fire priests come they should be able to do it, sorcerers probably could, the coven could probably adapt their magic to do it(with voodoo?), mages might be able to do it, and rangers could summon a beast and use their help with this. i can't think of how the others could do it, but they might be able to.
ps, those who are not psionicists, probably would not abuse enough of their minds in this subguild to have mental problems
are you seriously suggesting a subguild that lets EVERYONE have minions?....

i'm just going to give you a pre-emptive 'no'.

Also, I don't know of ANY guild that possesses the ability to bring inanimate objects to life. Corpses (for earth priests) are one thing- but they are brought back to be minions by using a link they already HAVE to the plane of the living. No guild thusfar can, or should be able to, breathe life into an inanimate object.
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solar
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Life or no life?

Post by solar »

apex wrote:Also, I don't know of ANY guild that possesses the ability to bring inanimate objects to life. Corpses (for earth priests) are one thing- but they are brought back to be minions by using a link they already HAVE to the plane of the living. No guild thusfar can, or should be able to, breathe life into an inanimate object.
What would explain items that have sentience, then? Weapons that telepatically bond with their wielders, mirror that can talk back? Who created them in the first place (yeah, not many of those lying around in Icesus, if any at all)... but still!

Psionicist can store psipower in psicrystals already, so why would enchanting objects to possess _some_ level of intelligence be too much for them? Aren't thoughts only electricity or something like that from scientific point of view?

You might want to leave your 'biblical point of view' regarding life elsewhere when discussing fantasy related stuff :P

Even Frankenstein was able to create life, and a good job he did, too - regarding mental cababilities. (I've read the book) This topic is not too sacred to be left only to the divine powers.

But personally I don't want to see any puppets in the game, pyrokinesis would be better, but B doesn't like the idea of Psionicists having fire as damagetype, however useless its damagepotential would be set to when coded.
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apex
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Post by apex »

I'm not using a biblical view... not at all- I just pointed out that no guild thusfar has the ability to bring inanimate objects to life- in description or idea. I'm not saying the idea is out of the question, or shouldn't be in icesus- i'm not saying it shouldn't be possible to do. I'm saying that according to guild ideas thusfar, it doesn't look like it fits anywhere.

Also- Psi's can store their mental POWER in crystals. They're not animating the crystals, and making them magically sentient, or making them ideological extra limbs or anything like that.

Psi's don't enchant, and creating intelligence is not in their description. Psionicists in this game do seem to be geared towards suron's 'third rate fortune tellers' - psychics- they use telekinesis to manipulate the physical world, and psychic powers to affect the minds of others- Once again, the guild doesn't seem to be geared towards 'hey let's be frankenstein!'.

Also: Frankenstein was closer to an e-priest in the respect that he created life from objects that had once harnessed life. I'm still not saying that making objects intelligent should be ruled out for all time from this game- i just don't think it fits at all with any of the guilds currently in operation.
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allanon
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Re: Life or no life?

Post by allanon »

solar wrote: What would explain items that have sentience, then? Weapons that telepatically bond with their wielders, mirror that can talk back? Who created them in the first place (yeah, not many of those lying around in Icesus, if any at all)... but still!

Psionicist can store psipower in psicrystals already, so why would enchanting objects to possess _some_ level of intelligence be too much for them? Aren't thoughts only electricity or something like that from scientific point of view?
Telepathically bonded weapons? That's magic, not telepathy...enchantment to let only the wielder use the weapon or guide his aim or other such effect. The sword is not alive.

A talking mirror has a spirit inside it (or perhaps batteries + voice recognition technology). An item imbued with presence of a spirit...shadow of a living thing or force...is still not alive.

Besides, such weapons or mirrors don't have the power to manipulate other objects except themselves (or sometimes not even that).

Storing psionic power in an inanimate gemstone is not the same as bestowing intelligence to it. (Do you see talking psicrystals anywhere?)

You cannot "give" intelligence to a dead object. The fact of the matter is that it is dead.

Thoughts may just be electricity but they require a brain to process them and carry them out. Maybe if psionicists can add brains to an inanimate object then they can give intelligence too.

The idea of puppets is not good in the sense that a psionicist gets to make a minion(s). Puppets or marionettes, could be controlled by telekenisis for limited action or movement...but they can't be given will of their own.

Perhaps there could be a compromise, that a psi could essentially forfeit control over themselves to fully animate an inanimate object with the psionicist's own will. Functions that the object couldn't do on its own - sight without eyes, eating without a mouth - probably couldn't be done. And if such an object sustains enough damage, the psi's will is expelled, the object returns to its unanimated state, and part the received damage can be transferred back to the psi (the other part remains on the object).
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apex
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Re: Life or no life?

Post by apex »

allanon wrote: Perhaps there could be a compromise, that a psi could essentially forfeit control over themselves to fully animate an inanimate object with the psionicist's own will. Functions that the object couldn't do on its own - sight without eyes, eating without a mouth - probably couldn't be done. And if such an object sustains enough damage, the psi's will is expelled, the object returns to its unanimated state, and part the received damage can be transferred back to the psi (the other part remains on the object).
Even then, we're talking about psionicists 'possessing' inanimate objects now- how would they go about doing it? psi's have no power over things without a mind.. except to move them-

I really don't think a compromise is necessary.. It's just not an idea that should be implemented. Some ideas are good, and some bad, this is a creative idea, i really just think it doesn't fit at all.
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xerene
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Post by xerene »

The idea of a construct is pretty neat, but not really a psi thing, I would think. It does however, sound like a neat guild idea something like an Earth Priest where you collect materials and build a golem of sorts to tank for you. ie:collect wood for a wood golem, iron for an iron golem and so on obviously making better golems with higher % of skills and gaining different golem types from different subguilds. Also the creator would need some sort of animate object spell and a few offie spells maybe with more levels you can gain buffing spells too.
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allanon
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Post by allanon »

apex wrote: Even then, we're talking about psionicists 'possessing' inanimate objects now- how would they go about doing it? psi's have no power over things without a mind.. except to move them-
Sorry, possession was probably the wrong term to use.

Didn't have time to finish my post, actually. I was going to say...In essence, the psionicist is enveloping the designated object in a "field" of movement aka. willpower. The movement of the object can be accomplished by Levitation spell in addition to simple movement.

Let's assume the controlling of a sword for instance. The sword levitates in the air - simple. Psionicists can move objects around with their powers, and if it is in the air there are no obstacles in the way. Now, the sword can perform some actions...for example it could be "swung" or "thrusted"...if the psionicist focuses on that sort of movement and speeds it up a bit. It won't reach lethal speeds, like a sword in the hand of an actual creature might, but it works.

So: an object is 'controlled' purely through movement. The same can go for remote controlled "puppets" or such. They could pick something up in a hand through some fancy manipulation of the fingers.

If you think about it, all that manipulation takes a lot of effort, since all movement must be directed by the psi. It would take a lot of concentration. Hence only single-object controlling could be accomplished...you might be able to hold multiple objects together in a formation for a while, but moving them all to perform actions would be rather difficult.

On a side note, this branch of psi could get a new skill "Single-mindedness" or such that helps with this process...

Anyway, that's the explanation. Hope it makes sense.

I don't actually think the compromise should be added, it was just a thought...Yes, the idea is creative, possibly good, but doesn't fit to current psi. It doesn't work as a subguild either. However it is not a stand-alone guild idea, yet, so...basically it is an orphan idea.
xerene wrote: The idea of a construct is pretty neat, but not really a psi thing, I would think. It does however, sound like a neat guild idea something like an Earth Priest where you collect materials and build a golem of sorts to tank for you. ie:collect wood for a wood golem, iron for an iron golem and so on obviously making better golems with higher % of skills and gaining different golem types from different subguilds. Also the creator would need some sort of animate object spell and a few offie spells maybe with more levels you can gain buffing spells too.
I think epriests should just stick with minions.
As pointed out earlier, undead minions are possible because the "parts" (eg. corpses) were once alive and you're just "reviving" them. Wood, while it was once alive, was not sentient. And iron is dead material.

The closest thing to a "golem" that epriests could be able to make would be similar to "Frankenstein"-type creature...various bodyparts from different corpses, combined into one entity. (Give your Goktar graveborn another arm!...) But that doesn't really fit either (right?)...
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apex
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Post by apex »

allanon- I agree that manipulating objects to move (like making a marionette move around) would be possible as a psi, using telekinesis- but the point that's been argued is that the psionicists should be able to use it like a tank, in other words, somehow use an unimaginable amount fo concentration to focus the marionette's movements, and then also attack/do other things psychicly. That woudln't make sense. And even though it's concievable, i think even the ideas of just allowing psionicists to use items to do damage at others (by using their psionic powers to hurl them into a mob, for example) might screw balance up a bit.. but at least it fits.


Secondly, I do remember speaking to Thoran a while back about his concept for the epriests- and they included having 'laboratories' for every player, that would house them while they "Make" golems to be their minions. So it's not all too far out of the theme... Though as you said, balance would be an issue, and they've got enough up their sleeves.

Maybe this golem-creating idea can be used for a different guild? Water Priests use aura magic right? they're the ones that can (like the channeler) channel energy into/out of objects.. maybe it fits them best, if this is implemented at all.
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Post by janeti »

xerene wrote:The idea of a construct is pretty neat, but not really a psi thing, I would think. It does however, sound like a neat guild idea something like an Earth Priest where you collect materials and build a golem of sorts to tank for you. ie:collect wood for a wood golem, iron for an iron golem and so on obviously making better golems with higher % of skills and gaining different golem types from different subguilds. Also the creator would need some sort of animate object spell and a few offie spells maybe with more levels you can gain buffing spells too.
A sub guild of the crafting guild maybe. I believe from things said in the forums that they build and enchant things, perfect for golem making. And of course they should have very little in the way of combat skills so that might be the only way that they could go adventuring. And they could no give them away or sell them because although they exsist away from the crafter only they have the ability to control them. One at a time and probably sacrificing any active defences and being easier to hit and unable to throw or shoot, as all their attention is concentrated on their creation, although since they would be on the second row they should be fairly safe. At that point they could even have multiple golems as they could only USE one at a time and any they are not using are treated as part of the scenary by mobs and would not be attacked or provide any defence. Although I think that they should only be able to MOVE one at a time to another room, so if they want to travel with more than one it will be incredibly time consuming and tedious, though they could leave several somewhere (an Inn maybe) and come back when one gets destroyed. And although simply having one follow them would not take anywhere near the concentration of having one fight they should still have reduced defences as they enter each room (if anything is there to surprise attack them), and obviously they would not be able to hunt with them.
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dunn
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Post by dunn »

Doesn't this all just step on the toes of earth priests, just on the basis of gameplay anyway?

I admit, a construct sounds fun but I think only mages can animate a construct. Should be mage related, not psion.

Could give psion some other interesting ability that is more fitting to their abilities.
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Post by kraven »

couple of psionic golems to keep psis at bay :)...and psi constructs are dungeons and dragons mobs :)..
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