I find it frustrating that everyone is so concerned about uptunes to and new creations of more diversified guilds.
Many ideas are very beneficial to all's experience here and the lack of these "Bigger and Better" ideas would create, in my opinion, a lack of interest in Icesus. However, things that have been with us from the start of our days are not shared, I believe they should be. Many guilds and subguilds have a variety of quests, or maybe they just have one or two. Bounty's are relatively new. Some guilds have taken this feature as an opportunity to expand their guild members experience within Icesus.
So, answer my poll. Post your comments and ideas.
A Question of Substance
Moderator: Moderators
I agree that new things are not as important as fixing any current problems, though what constitutes a "problem" is up for debate. more quests are always usefull, if only to get people to explore more areas in the game. too many people, newbies and hibies alike, have never found many of the most notable areas in the game, such as the "great temples" and multi-colored portals. A fair mix of fixing the glaring problems with adding new ideas is best.
and ps, since we are talking about adding and fixing, i cant wait for fire and water (fire better:D) priests, and i quite approve of the hunting fix, though i am still not that good at it
and ps, since we are talking about adding and fixing, i cant wait for fire and water (fire better:D) priests, and i quite approve of the hunting fix, though i am still not that good at it
I hardly even leave Vaerlon, unless someone else drags me along in a party.
I have next to no reason to explore, unless I want you "You live in Vaerlon and you have explored a lot of the world"
I want basic directions given out for quests, to new areas I can start to kill at with diverse monsters.
Dont see too many bugs nowadays, and I think most things are tuned anyhow. I would like to see the supposedly finished guilds tested and released already, maybe they would open up new areas my level could actually visit. And have a reason to.
I have next to no reason to explore, unless I want you "You live in Vaerlon and you have explored a lot of the world"
I want basic directions given out for quests, to new areas I can start to kill at with diverse monsters.
Dont see too many bugs nowadays, and I think most things are tuned anyhow. I would like to see the supposedly finished guilds tested and released already, maybe they would open up new areas my level could actually visit. And have a reason to.
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artic
- Supporting Member 2005
- Posts: 475
- Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 15:54 pm
- Location: Tallinn, Estonia
I think we have enough guilds. finish the ones you working on now and than make us loads more areas for all levels not just the Uber-high end super-monsters. Although dont forget to add some of those either. But certainly add more midby level areas. Currently it seems there are about 15 areas i know of that i cant visit because i get instantly killed and about 5 areas i can visit. Mostly those 5 are all raped out already by the time i get to them and I would really appreciate new areas more than new guilds.
edit:
there are some guild i am waiting for and would really like to see in game tho. One of witch is the Artisans guild. Also maybe the other 2 priesthoods and than thats it. enough!
edit:
there are some guild i am waiting for and would really like to see in game tho. One of witch is the Artisans guild. Also maybe the other 2 priesthoods and than thats it. enough!
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artic
- Supporting Member 2005
- Posts: 475
- Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 15:54 pm
- Location: Tallinn, Estonia
I dont think im exaggerating. It is possible that there used to be weaker monsters before the uber-aggro ones, but if the number of areas is soo limited, it is likely i entered in an area and the first monster i was able to fins there was a high level aggro, just because all the friendly folk were killed off.zohlor wrote: I can't really think of that many areas where you get instantly killed when entering it. Come to think of, there are but a few areas that have aggressive monsters near the entrance so stop exaggerating.
If it wasnt against the rules i could name (starts counting on his fingers)... 7 or 8 areas where i have been nearly instakilled. And thats not counting the areas that are constantly areaspelled.
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arkady
- Supporting Member 2007
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 07:22 am
- Location: Huntington Beach, CA
While I agree that for along time I will be killing mobs in an range from 6k to 20k for a long time and there are only a few areas in the game that have that combination of numbers and value.
On quests. Oh 2 years to solve one quest. Does that strike anyone else as stupid. To make something hard doesn't mean to make it nearly impossible. I want more directions to the quests more help solving them and so forth.
On quests. Oh 2 years to solve one quest. Does that strike anyone else as stupid. To make something hard doesn't mean to make it nearly impossible. I want more directions to the quests more help solving them and so forth.
Regarding quests, if you are after direction from ereldon on what to do you can forget it. Ereldon's main purpose is just to list the ones you have completed and ones you haven't (that are not secret). He is not there to tell you where to find the quest. The idea is that you explore areas and discover the quest in the area not be told theres a quest in this area go do it. Nearly every area has something to do so unless you have discovered every explore room (no one has done this) you can safely say that there is something out there that you haven't done.
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arkady
- Supporting Member 2007
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 07:22 am
- Location: Huntington Beach, CA
When did I make the claim to being everyone?
I think that what echcua said is valid but I think that people should have an idea as the number and difficulty of the quests in the area maybe even some idea as to the reward. I think that ereldon doesn't have to give this info but it should be discoverable in the game.
Basicly doesn't it make sense that there would be information about the quest throughout the realm, definetly not a walk through but legend has it that a great warrior was buried near so and so realm and some of his artifacts might be there.
I see that this would unreasonable for the older quests but I still feel sad that these game elements fall into disuse as the player base changes...
I think that what echcua said is valid but I think that people should have an idea as the number and difficulty of the quests in the area maybe even some idea as to the reward. I think that ereldon doesn't have to give this info but it should be discoverable in the game.
Basicly doesn't it make sense that there would be information about the quest throughout the realm, definetly not a walk through but legend has it that a great warrior was buried near so and so realm and some of his artifacts might be there.
I see that this would unreasonable for the older quests but I still feel sad that these game elements fall into disuse as the player base changes...
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artic
- Supporting Member 2005
- Posts: 475
- Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 15:54 pm
- Location: Tallinn, Estonia
Dont even get me started on quests.
usually i have to ask a npc about 25 to 250 different words before i find the key to him. A secret room can be accessed with a 6 word phrase where only 1 of those words is hinted at in the room.
I think its Stalker who always says the hardest part of coding is to make something foolproof, but i wish the wizards and wizzes would try a little harder to make the quests a little more universal. Like coding in an option that player might get the orange with 'get orange' instead of having to come up with 'take orange'.
For anyone with a spirit of exploring like mine and wants it crushed, id suggest visiting the Pegasus Tower. Hope thats not sharing information.
usually i have to ask a npc about 25 to 250 different words before i find the key to him. A secret room can be accessed with a 6 word phrase where only 1 of those words is hinted at in the room.
I think its Stalker who always says the hardest part of coding is to make something foolproof, but i wish the wizards and wizzes would try a little harder to make the quests a little more universal. Like coding in an option that player might get the orange with 'get orange' instead of having to come up with 'take orange'.
For anyone with a spirit of exploring like mine and wants it crushed, id suggest visiting the Pegasus Tower. Hope thats not sharing information.
I spent ages trying to complete a quest which I thought I had worked out - which involved giving something to someone as the final step - and all I kept getting was that he had no space for the item.
I tried many different asks to no avail, later I went back there on a different boot and it worked - I can only assume that the quest had been completed already on the previous ocassion, in which case it would be nice if an appropriate response was given - like in some other quests which actually say something like "a player has already helped blah" or something - I forget the phrase.
I am happy with the abundance of skills available at my meager level (only 28 atm) and don't really have enough game experience to know if any need tuning - they all seem to contribute, but more guild quests would be nice, I liked the fact that to advance at a certain point in the army I had to complete one - albeit an easy quest - more of the same please
I tried many different asks to no avail, later I went back there on a different boot and it worked - I can only assume that the quest had been completed already on the previous ocassion, in which case it would be nice if an appropriate response was given - like in some other quests which actually say something like "a player has already helped blah" or something - I forget the phrase.
I am happy with the abundance of skills available at my meager level (only 28 atm) and don't really have enough game experience to know if any need tuning - they all seem to contribute, but more guild quests would be nice, I liked the fact that to advance at a certain point in the army I had to complete one - albeit an easy quest - more of the same please
No human being, however great, or powerful, was ever so free as a fish.
- John Ruskin
- John Ruskin
The intent I had creating this poll was to get an understanding of what others were seeing Icesus become, or wanted it to become for that matter.
My feelings are right on track with some of your thoughts:
I would not like to see changes in the quest system that make it easier for simple minded players to complete the easiest of quests let alone a truly difficult quest. They are made difficult and "not perfect" for a reason.
My feelings are right on track with some of your thoughts:
more guild quests would be nice, I liked the fact that to advance at a certain point in the army I had to complete one - albeit an easy quest - more of the same please
What I find sad is:I think we have enough guilds. finish the ones you working on now and than make us loads more areas for all levels not just the Uber-high end super-monsters
The idea is NOT to make it easier for one to accomplish the quest by giving, or letting one have access to, vital information to complete the quest. (This goes for even finding what area the quest begins in.)I hardly even leave Vaerlon, unless someone else drags me along in a party.
I would not like to see changes in the quest system that make it easier for simple minded players to complete the easiest of quests let alone a truly difficult quest. They are made difficult and "not perfect" for a reason.
I really do not think they should be universal. I believe this flaw is needed. I hope this made sense...I tend not to.I think its Stalker who always says the hardest part of coding is to make something foolproof, but i wish the wizards and wizzes would try a little harder to make the quests a little more universal.
Well, you have to have some easy and obvious quests for those new to the game, and lazy folks. And of course you have to have harder ones that take a bit more work and thinking before you make any progress. Maybe you'll even need to take out a scratchpad and write down clues! That's the basic idea, you have a mix of difficulties to match the various levels of players...
The flaw, which seems to annoy people, is that quests aren't necessarily following a linear progression of
easy > medium > hard. We have quests like "kill the pig" where I'd be surprised if there's anyone who can't solve them. On the other hand we have things like Pegasus Tower which I've heard takes more than a year to complete. There aren't hard, but maybe impossible for many people.
But, we need "impossible" quests for those players who like a challenge. Or are just bored. If you're discouraged by a seemingly impossible quest, then you should just move on to an easier one and think that that quest wasn't designed for someone with your level of quest-solving skills...
It's unproductive to whine that the wizards should try and code the quests so everyone (meaning you and fellow whiners) can do them. One of the ideas behind creative area and quests is that sometimes, only highly skilled people will be able to complete them - people with special knowledge, who happen to think certain way...This especially true for 'syntax' situations where you need to ask a very specific question or such...some people will get it right away, others will be muddled for weeks.
Exa: Without any concrete clues or hints whatsoever, could you guess that you need to 'break' "a dusty window" to get a scroll of banishment? (some old miniquest in Teladan...dunno if I'm remembering it correctly though.) That takes some creative thinking, and I'm sure lots of people would never think of doing that...Only having to "search xxx" is nice but it's pretty boring, and it's much too easy.
Or the thieves' hideout quest is another good example. What does the guard want? "I wish I could get that time back"? I have tried just about everything, up to and including...well, I'd rather not share that. Maybe he doesn't even have the key. Still, it's hard, creativity-needed quest. True, most of it is search xxx and give item y to NPC z, and I know many have finished it long ago...but it's still got me stumped.
But, I don't whine about it being too hard and not enough hints. (Not anymore, at any rate...apologies to a certain highbie for my incessant begging of yesteryear.) I know that maybe someday, years from now, inspiration will suddenly hit me and I'll see the solution clear as day. Then I'll laugh at myself for being so naive...
THAT, is the true reward players get for solving the hard quests. Hence why they are necessary and important.
...I'm just meandering along here, and probably I'm just repeating what others said, but anyways, the point is that I'm agreeing with the necessity of having "unfairly hard" or "unbalanced" quests. "Icesus is Icesus"...
>>>
As to the actual original question of this post. I think it's fine to make New! Guilds, Areas, Items, Commands, blah blah. However that's only great when the infrastructure is being upkept. That is...people's complaints are being satisfied, things already in the game are being tuned and fixed, bugs are being removed. It's not practical to add an extra floor to the house when the garage is about to collapse from neglect. (Unless you got a really awful garage, and Icesus doesn't.)
Obviously I haven't been in-game for quite some time, I just hover around the forums, so I have no clue how things are in the Real World right now. Therefore I can't give opinion about what I think Icesus is becoming / should be in future.
However I'd like every guild to have its own unique quests! At least one...Doesn't need to be anything flashy. I know, mages are pretty much at the stage where they don't need more or less (what a miracle!), but I'd like a mage-only quest. I dunno if they exist, but also one quest each for air_priest, shifter, psionicist...sorcerer too? Don't know anything bout them. If each guild had its own unique quest to do, it would give more of that sense of "doing something".
Q: Why are you a mage?
A: I like to toast orcs with my fireballs.
That's great, but I'd like more of a purpose, you know? Mages exist for...<quest here>. Same goes for shifters and psi. These guilds exist right now for the sake of maintaining a special power. But, they don't "do" anything...where are the goals and aims? That's all I'm saying.
(air_priest already get pseudo-event, and they are only "true" healers, so actually they maybe don't need unique quest...)
(addendum: would be nice if they got something involving preaching, though. "You must go and spread the word of Pthuule to the heathens of HeathenLnd. The Goddess will reward you with divine favors for your efforts..." etc. Missionary campaigns, that didn't involve bothering players.)
Oh yes, and just to make this post even longer. It's sad when people never leave the immediate Vaerlon area - it really is good for you to get out - but you can't always blame them. I was highly discouraged from exploring new areas at all once I hit the levels 15-30 or so. It's right at that point that you're too strong for rat warehouse but too weak for, say, Gypsy camp or Highhill moose...it's a difficult transitory period. There are areas for that age group, but sometimes people are afraid of change...so they stick to the tried-and-true areas and then whine how hard a position they are in.
The flaw, which seems to annoy people, is that quests aren't necessarily following a linear progression of
easy > medium > hard. We have quests like "kill the pig" where I'd be surprised if there's anyone who can't solve them. On the other hand we have things like Pegasus Tower which I've heard takes more than a year to complete. There aren't hard, but maybe impossible for many people.
But, we need "impossible" quests for those players who like a challenge. Or are just bored. If you're discouraged by a seemingly impossible quest, then you should just move on to an easier one and think that that quest wasn't designed for someone with your level of quest-solving skills...
It's unproductive to whine that the wizards should try and code the quests so everyone (meaning you and fellow whiners) can do them. One of the ideas behind creative area and quests is that sometimes, only highly skilled people will be able to complete them - people with special knowledge, who happen to think certain way...This especially true for 'syntax' situations where you need to ask a very specific question or such...some people will get it right away, others will be muddled for weeks.
Exa: Without any concrete clues or hints whatsoever, could you guess that you need to 'break' "a dusty window" to get a scroll of banishment? (some old miniquest in Teladan...dunno if I'm remembering it correctly though.) That takes some creative thinking, and I'm sure lots of people would never think of doing that...Only having to "search xxx" is nice but it's pretty boring, and it's much too easy.
Or the thieves' hideout quest is another good example. What does the guard want? "I wish I could get that time back"? I have tried just about everything, up to and including...well, I'd rather not share that. Maybe he doesn't even have the key. Still, it's hard, creativity-needed quest. True, most of it is search xxx and give item y to NPC z, and I know many have finished it long ago...but it's still got me stumped.
But, I don't whine about it being too hard and not enough hints. (Not anymore, at any rate...apologies to a certain highbie for my incessant begging of yesteryear.) I know that maybe someday, years from now, inspiration will suddenly hit me and I'll see the solution clear as day. Then I'll laugh at myself for being so naive...
THAT, is the true reward players get for solving the hard quests. Hence why they are necessary and important.
...I'm just meandering along here, and probably I'm just repeating what others said, but anyways, the point is that I'm agreeing with the necessity of having "unfairly hard" or "unbalanced" quests. "Icesus is Icesus"...
>>>
As to the actual original question of this post. I think it's fine to make New! Guilds, Areas, Items, Commands, blah blah. However that's only great when the infrastructure is being upkept. That is...people's complaints are being satisfied, things already in the game are being tuned and fixed, bugs are being removed. It's not practical to add an extra floor to the house when the garage is about to collapse from neglect. (Unless you got a really awful garage, and Icesus doesn't.)
Obviously I haven't been in-game for quite some time, I just hover around the forums, so I have no clue how things are in the Real World right now. Therefore I can't give opinion about what I think Icesus is becoming / should be in future.
However I'd like every guild to have its own unique quests! At least one...Doesn't need to be anything flashy. I know, mages are pretty much at the stage where they don't need more or less (what a miracle!), but I'd like a mage-only quest. I dunno if they exist, but also one quest each for air_priest, shifter, psionicist...sorcerer too? Don't know anything bout them. If each guild had its own unique quest to do, it would give more of that sense of "doing something".
Q: Why are you a mage?
A: I like to toast orcs with my fireballs.
That's great, but I'd like more of a purpose, you know? Mages exist for...<quest here>. Same goes for shifters and psi. These guilds exist right now for the sake of maintaining a special power. But, they don't "do" anything...where are the goals and aims? That's all I'm saying.
(air_priest already get pseudo-event, and they are only "true" healers, so actually they maybe don't need unique quest...)
(addendum: would be nice if they got something involving preaching, though. "You must go and spread the word of Pthuule to the heathens of HeathenLnd. The Goddess will reward you with divine favors for your efforts..." etc. Missionary campaigns, that didn't involve bothering players.)
Oh yes, and just to make this post even longer. It's sad when people never leave the immediate Vaerlon area - it really is good for you to get out - but you can't always blame them. I was highly discouraged from exploring new areas at all once I hit the levels 15-30 or so. It's right at that point that you're too strong for rat warehouse but too weak for, say, Gypsy camp or Highhill moose...it's a difficult transitory period. There are areas for that age group, but sometimes people are afraid of change...so they stick to the tried-and-true areas and then whine how hard a position they are in.
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