Why not have a PK Poll? That way you can accurately judge what the players really feel.
I'm very against PK, except in arena type areas. In other MUD's I've played, the highbies end up being able to do whatever they want because no one can kill them. An atmosphere of "Might makes Right" forms. I like Icesus because I can run around without being killed every time I step out of the Inn.
Common courtesy & "kill stealing".
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dracolipse
- Posts: 20
- Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 05:14 am
- Location: San Diego, California, USA
PK Poll
"If you love somebody, let them go. For if they return, they were always yours and if they dont, they never were. - Kahlil Gibran"
Like: Whot the hell stole my skeleton lord (usually the mob that has kill stealed from me). And of course tracking helps alot to figure who has been there 
well youd have to be careful with a PK rule like that Maruxus...
cuz there will always be players who can FIND an RP reason to kill someone lol...
of course being drunk and killing someone in a drunken rage wouldnt count.. or something easy manipulated like that (as RP can be...)
overall i like the PK rules there are now... but i dont think allowing "more PK" is a bad idea... it would certainly influence players decisions on how they interract (might even stimulate a lot more RP... and not just PK-RP) with each other. and of course with less PK rules and less admin action in place... theres more likely to be a "taboo" than a written law about something... and generally ppl listen to taboos more than laws lol (atleast sometimes....)
i could be wrong about all this tho
i dont like the idea of exp based on damage done lol.
way too easy to abuse...
as for kill stealing.... i myself havent had a large number of instances where this is an issue. i know ppl who have... and have been in a party that encountered a circumstance as like what Tanstai described about a corpse being there...
you will always probly have ppl who will try to get away with "as much as they can" without "technically breaking the rules".
not sure how to create an atmosphere of common courtesy among EVERYONE tho.. and i dont think you could expect that kind of atmosphere to exist... cuz theres always SOMEONE lol... altho they might get frowned on by other players (and of course if theyre a REALLY big player then they arent gonna give a rip what other players think really...) ive played MUDs where the really old and big players sort of did whatever they wanted (short of admin intervention) and other players let it slide (of course this was on a MUD that was PK all the time tho...)
... but who knows lol... hopefully something really nifty can be done about it all
just wanted to point out that MOST players on icesus would probly show the same courtesy to others as they would expect back... and of course theres 2 sides to that coin lol. youd just have to be careful about how much "abuse" would take place of PK... because like has been pointed out there are ppl who will do anything short of "technically" breaking the rules (written rules rather than social taboos)
let me know what you think
lab
cuz there will always be players who can FIND an RP reason to kill someone lol...
of course being drunk and killing someone in a drunken rage wouldnt count.. or something easy manipulated like that (as RP can be...)
overall i like the PK rules there are now... but i dont think allowing "more PK" is a bad idea... it would certainly influence players decisions on how they interract (might even stimulate a lot more RP... and not just PK-RP) with each other. and of course with less PK rules and less admin action in place... theres more likely to be a "taboo" than a written law about something... and generally ppl listen to taboos more than laws lol (atleast sometimes....)
i could be wrong about all this tho
i dont like the idea of exp based on damage done lol.
way too easy to abuse...
as for kill stealing.... i myself havent had a large number of instances where this is an issue. i know ppl who have... and have been in a party that encountered a circumstance as like what Tanstai described about a corpse being there...
you will always probly have ppl who will try to get away with "as much as they can" without "technically breaking the rules".
not sure how to create an atmosphere of common courtesy among EVERYONE tho.. and i dont think you could expect that kind of atmosphere to exist... cuz theres always SOMEONE lol... altho they might get frowned on by other players (and of course if theyre a REALLY big player then they arent gonna give a rip what other players think really...) ive played MUDs where the really old and big players sort of did whatever they wanted (short of admin intervention) and other players let it slide (of course this was on a MUD that was PK all the time tho...)
... but who knows lol... hopefully something really nifty can be done about it all
just wanted to point out that MOST players on icesus would probly show the same courtesy to others as they would expect back... and of course theres 2 sides to that coin lol. youd just have to be careful about how much "abuse" would take place of PK... because like has been pointed out there are ppl who will do anything short of "technically" breaking the rules (written rules rather than social taboos)
let me know what you think
lab
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"The good are innocent and create justice. The bad are guilty, wich is why they invent mercy."
"The good are innocent and create justice. The bad are guilty, wich is why they invent mercy."
hrm
i'm interested how this turns out. the new rules would have to be pretty specific and stuff though.
for instance if two people are arguing and one person decides the other one has no opinion because he/she is a lower level, and then kills him/her. i think in some cases it could be considered aggrivated assault, depending on the argument, and how heated it got. on the other hand if this was *completely* legal i have a feeling i'd be spending most of my time at the temple of death. -g-
personally i think the pking rules are pretty good now.
and exp from damage done?? we could take turns with healers, i'll attack you, you heal yourself, you attack me, you heal me. don't see that working out.
for instance if two people are arguing and one person decides the other one has no opinion because he/she is a lower level, and then kills him/her. i think in some cases it could be considered aggrivated assault, depending on the argument, and how heated it got. on the other hand if this was *completely* legal i have a feeling i'd be spending most of my time at the temple of death. -g-
personally i think the pking rules are pretty good now.
and exp from damage done?? we could take turns with healers, i'll attack you, you heal yourself, you attack me, you heal me. don't see that working out.
"My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre and that I am therefore excused from saving universes."
what makes it PK? attacking another player.. or killing another player?
i realize it stands for player kill... but.. im just curious where the lines are on it.. ill go read the help file again
lab
i realize it stands for player kill... but.. im just curious where the lines are on it.. ill go read the help file again
lab
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"The good are innocent and create justice. The bad are guilty, wich is why they invent mercy."
"The good are innocent and create justice. The bad are guilty, wich is why they invent mercy."
hrm
player killing is when you kill another player.
"My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre and that I am therefore excused from saving universes."
yeh i know.. but is it limited to achieving your goal (killing the person ie. DEAD) or is it still PK if you attack them but dont kill them lol
not sure it matters tho honestly.. just curious..
lab
not sure it matters tho honestly.. just curious..
lab
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"The good are innocent and create justice. The bad are guilty, wich is why they invent mercy."
"The good are innocent and create justice. The bad are guilty, wich is why they invent mercy."
hrm
it depends on the intentions of the attacks. i.e., you piss me off so i'm going to kill you, but you manage to get away. i still intended to PK you but i didn't actually finish the job. so no PKing took place, but it was an attempted PK.
"My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre and that I am therefore excused from saving universes."
Perhaps less admin and more players taking care of the problems. Issues could be somewhat handled by templars (aren't they supposed to enforcers of the law), and they could escalate an issue to a wizard, if they feel it's necessary.
I still don't think you have a RIGHT to the mob that killed YOU! One thought is taken from another mud, heavy RP, but there are rules about what you do and don't remember when you've died. Perhaps this is a bit extreme for Icesus, but then so is "dead player rights".
Tanstai
I still don't think you have a RIGHT to the mob that killed YOU! One thought is taken from another mud, heavy RP, but there are rules about what you do and don't remember when you've died. Perhaps this is a bit extreme for Icesus, but then so is "dead player rights".
Tanstai
wield Life
You don't have a Life.
You don't have a Life.
the way it is now, no exp for pking (unless in specified pk-friendly areas), is perfect, because it doesn't provoke people to run around pking people for no reason. the templar thing is a good idea but i have a feeling, especially with some of the guilds (thief guild) belannaer is planning, some people are going to try to avoid figures of the "law" as much as possible, be them templars are guards.
pking should be allowed for things like kill stealing, etc., by the wizards. but there should be some form of in-character law in Icesus. it would be nice to see the guards enforce the laws on the signs strewn about Vaerlon. "No sleeping on the streets", etc. maybe we could have a prison and a set of stocks, so that when people do crimes that don't require the death penalty there is some sort of alternative. and maybe if someone pk's for no reason there can be a public hanging or guillotine show.
pking should be allowed for things like kill stealing, etc., by the wizards. but there should be some form of in-character law in Icesus. it would be nice to see the guards enforce the laws on the signs strewn about Vaerlon. "No sleeping on the streets", etc. maybe we could have a prison and a set of stocks, so that when people do crimes that don't require the death penalty there is some sort of alternative. and maybe if someone pk's for no reason there can be a public hanging or guillotine show.
"My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre and that I am therefore excused from saving universes."
Issues concerning player killing closed around Q4/2003:maruxus wrote:My personal opinion on this may not be widely appreciated, but I think that less administrative action should be taken, and more player killing for what you view as a wrong done to you. Perhaps even a slight easing of the PK rules would make someone think before they KS.
1 case of multiple player killing found guilty
1 case of player killing where PK'er admitted
1 case where found guilty but defending rules were considered ambiguous and thus no administrative intervention was required
3 cases where found not guilty
5 cases where the issue was dismissed without investigation.
I'd say that administrative action is, when compared to the total amount of actual player kills logged during the same time, seemingly low already.
The point that I'm trying desperately to make is that the rules are widely misinterpreted as illegalizing all player killing that fall out of the exemption as provided in article III of 'help player killing'. Article VII ought to be applied flexibly and reasonably, thus allowing true case-by-case analysis should an 'issue' be put forth on player killing on the grounds of a breach in common courtesy rules...
Stalker
yeh.. last MUD i played that had a jail it worked out nicely i think... marshalls patrolling the streets.. bonk (to put it nicely) you over the head with a battle mace till you fall unconscious.. then they drag your butt to jail.. theres a bond price etc etc that other players can pay for you... if youre a repeat offender they take you to the torture chamber where you are tortured to near death (and in 1 or 2 personal cases sure death)... and if youre a REALLY bad repeat offender (or kill one of the guild NPCs.. or do something extremely bad and unlawful) then they took you the northwest corner of the town square and killed you by means of either.. hanging.. guillotine... i think in some cases they impaled some ppl on some spikes... and then your head is placed in lovely view for all to see on some metal spikes in the square lol.... but yeh jail isnt a completely bad idea.. and also when you were arrested the guards took you eq and held it till you practically bribed it back from them (Altho i never really liked that part much... sometimes it was annoying having to bum money off ppl or wait for the bank to open...)
not sure if Icesus needs or wants a jail system like that.. but thats how it was at another MUD (not that icesus should be like that mud.. cuz frankly icesus is way better lol).. you might use that as some ideas to base a jail on though.. shrug..
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on another note... what was this topic originally about?
kill stealing...?
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all for now.
lab
not sure if Icesus needs or wants a jail system like that.. but thats how it was at another MUD (not that icesus should be like that mud.. cuz frankly icesus is way better lol).. you might use that as some ideas to base a jail on though.. shrug..
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on another note... what was this topic originally about?
kill stealing...?
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all for now.
lab
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"The good are innocent and create justice. The bad are guilty, wich is why they invent mercy."
"The good are innocent and create justice. The bad are guilty, wich is why they invent mercy."
Fully allowed PK would most likely lead into bashing. Like in, hey i dont like that newbie, so i keep killing him.. i doubt the newbie would find it very fun way to play, tho i might. Basicaly the problem seems to be the mentality of the players in like all the netbased games, there are people who will play like it was meant, but there also will be those who won't. My self, i dont have anything against some PK'ing, but i dont think it should be fully allowed..