Common courtesy & "kill stealing".

stalker · Post by **stalker** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 08:38 am

odovacar wrote:Leading the guild should entail some responsibilities (and this goes not only for shadowdancers). I agree this might be a bit problematic if the leader doesn't perform well, but assuming the guild leader is a seasoned mudder and has some mental maturity ...

Spot on; the utter rarity of one of the two qualities mentioned is exactly why the expanding of player-on-player control is deemeded to cause horrible and undesired consequences rather than immerse the role-playing experience.

maruxus · Post by **maruxus** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 10:18 am

ignoring those obvious insults stalker

I know from experience that if you give a player some power in leadership for the most part they will respect it and lead properly. Besides, the way the shadowdancers work it's fairly simple to replace a bad leader.

mandrake · Post by **mandrake** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 19:15 pm

I admit I haven't been on here long but I have been playing RPGs for well over 10 years, I've DM'ed chat room RPGs an helped create a table top one from scratch, I to be honest I find this whole "kill stealing" thing rather childish.

I mean its one thing if someone comes by an wacks away on a mob that you have worked down AND are still fighting, but if you have stopped fighting it then you have no "claim" to it cause once you run from it then you have given up your right to say "hey thats my kill".

And as for if someone comes in an starts wackin on mob #2 while you are still fighting mob #1, well frankly mob #2 is fair game because you are fighting mob #1 not #2. I mean how can you lay "claim" to a mob that you haven't even started fighting yet just cause you might?

How bout this, I claim all mobs in Icesus because I plan to fight an kill them at some point.....pretty much the same idea as claiming mobs you haven't fought yet just cause you haven't got to them yet.

artic · Post by **artic** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 20:16 pm

mandrake wrote: but if you have stopped fighting it then you have no "claim" to it cause once you run from it then you have given up your right to say "hey thats my kill".

Oh, childish is it... strange the whole point of sneaking-fighters is that they run away from the battle only to sneak back in un-noticed. Same for mages who leave battle only to prepare for the next spell, or archers who leave to reload. Are you saying, all of those monsters are free game? I dont think so! Are we all supposed to stick to the kills that we can do in one run?

And mob #2 is not free at all. Cosnider this situation- ther are 2 monsters in a room. Way too tough to kill them both at once. if you attack monster #1, #2 will join the fight, but if you fight #2 first, #1 wont even mind. So if im whacking #2, only to make it easier to kill #1, and you come in and kill the #1. id say thats stealing the kill away.

khade · Post by **khade** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 22:43 pm

this is why i ask the person about it, or if i can't see anyone near, ask on a channel.

kade · Post by **kade** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 05:56 am

If your kill is stolen, don't complain at all. Simply report it. If it was a legitimate stolen kill, then the wizards will smite the thieves. I'd rather do that than complain or hold a grudge. It's simply making people abide by the rules of the game.

mandrake · Post by **mandrake** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 08:11 am

frankly no matter what a second or third mob is fair game because like I said how do you claim a kill you haven't even started yet? so you can come up with all the reasons you want to try to say "no thats my three brown rats to kill", when it comes right down to it you're simply trying to cheat others out of getting kills. Now if I come in an I kill the beasty you are in the middle of fighting yes by all means I am kill stealing but if you aren't fighting the mob then I do not have to stand around an wait for you to give me permission to try to get a kill. you do not own a mob just cause you might kill it after you get done with the one you are fighting right then. I wasn't kidding when I said that by the rules some of you are wanting to be in place I could say that anyone that kills a mob anywhere in Icesus is kill stealing from me, sure I haven't got to whatever mob they killed an most likely can't take a large number of them but I steal intend to hunt down and kill every mob type there is on here so no one can kill anything till I do, and by the rules you want this would be totally valied but thankfully I'm not a exp horder an don't feel the need to try to keep others from getting kills they have just as much right to as I do.

Now as for archers an mages an others that dash in an out to fight, thats all well an good an I do agree that some races an guilds are best suited for that type of fighting however its one thing to say "I just backed off for a sec to reload/get a big spell ready" but something totally different to say "I was getting spanked by that thing, I need to rest up for a few minutes an try again". Ya need to heal or rest up, fine go right a head but don't cry foul if while you're doing that some one comes by an kills that mob, ya want to rest up an fight some more then rest a few sec till ya know ya can at least take a few more hits an jump back in. But if you're goin to sit there an keep restin till ya are at 100 again then don't be surprized if some one gets it before you while you were makeing sure you are at full health when all you really needed was to get back 20 or 30 points to be able to finish it off.

When it comes right done to it kill stealing is one of the most useless complaints a gamer can make, cause it always comes down to to things; either A) it was clearly a kill steal cause the other person came in a delivered the death blow just before the person who was already fighting did or B) they lost the kill through their own fault or simply are greedy. Cause that it what kill stealing actually is, waiting till some one has a beast almost dead then jumping in an landing the last hit to steal the kill they worked for, not come in an killing a beast they aren't fighting.

stalker · Post by **stalker** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 09:18 am

My two cents on the subject...

Without regard to the enacted kill stealing rules but rather to the extent of common courtesy, as a player I would enjoy to have a possibility to attempt to kill monsters that are way beyond my league. This might take 10 or 20 runs, but it'd be fun nonetheless. To this end, I'd appreciate if other players wouldn't harbour ill feelings toward someone attempting near-impossible kills and thus "reserving" a monster for an extended period of time.

khade · Post by **khade** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 18:31 pm

how about a new channel that you can tell people when you are doing this?

misrobo · Post by **misrobo** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 19:06 pm

Or perhaps a monster could remember the last person that damaged it and when. Then you could "monster_finger" it or something and find out who was working it and how long it has been since they whacked it.

That would be useful for blockers when you find them at "sli" and are trying to figure out if someone is coming back or not.

On the other hand, it is a nasty breech of reality.

(Hmm... part of that information is already there. The monster knows who it is aggro to.)

mandrake · Post by **mandrake** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 20:07 pm

finally some one mentions reality. Thats what this all boils down to, the game is sposta be realistic and how realistic is it to say you can claim a mob just cause you were fighting it a few minutes ago or cause you were going to fight it in a few minutes. sorry no, mobs should all be fair game as long as someone else isn't fighting it right then.

khade · Post by **khade** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 21:05 pm

how about if you look at the monster or consider it there is a line saying who injured it last.

grainer · Post by **grainer** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 21:57 pm

Well suppose you now are allowed to kill mob#2 from the same room I'm fighting mob#1 at the same time and there's n mobs at that room.

You enter the room, see my party fighting mob#1 while other mobs are standing still.

Then you see "Grainer blabs: Shoo!" and think "what the hell makes him able to tell me where to kill mobs that are free to kill" and start fighting mob#2

Then BOOM!!! you're dead!...too bad that you didn't see me casting delayed tornado like mob#1 did when it agroed to me. I also told you go move away thus making the pk not my fault.

Just my 2 cents...and the reason I don't hand around someone fighting a mob for more than Â½ sec.

artic · Post by **artic** » Sat Jun 12, 2004 12:36 pm

mandrake wrote: ... however its one thing to say "I just backed off for a sec to reload/get a big spell ready" but something totally different to say "I was getting spanked by that thing, I need to rest up for a few minutes an try again"...

Did you know that there is a guild, that can get a successful attack on a mob _again_ only after waiting 7-10 min? Surely i could go in and fight the mob, and prolly win too, but why would i, if i can wait 7 min and then finish the mob in one strike?

Maybe one should play the game a bit longer before sugesting some rules of courtesy in the game. I know you might have a very high knowledge of RPG's and it might seem quite unlogical to say: "This is my kill!", but Icesus is a very Unique place!

And besides, no-one is telling you, that you cant start killing mob #2, or that you cant kill a mob thats already in vbs- its just not polite to! So go ahead, do everything you want to, and if some-one starts to whine, just say: "I dont consider this kill stealing." Thats a way to make friends...

kade · Post by **kade** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 09:35 am

Hmm, so some people think that if nobody is fighting a mob at that exact instant it should be fair game. Might as well go stand next to someone fighting a mob, watch them get it down to very bad shape, and if they flee, finish it. That sounds perfectly fair. In fact, why not follow someone around in an area that's just barely beyond their ability to finish off the mobs in one run and kill everything as they flee? That sounds like the definition of good gamesmanship.